A New Schott Model: The 603USA Cafecto

[IXL]

^^^Meanwhile, Schott shipped out a few zillion jackets, OTR sizing, to paying customers while they lost a couple of sales to.....

 

[ButteMT61]

And like a Ducati, not everyone shows up in one. I've had many a Schott that I loved, but none of them fit me like the other jackets I've either had made or got from someone that did. In my mind, two totally different and nice options.
If you can wear OTR, then it's a good thing. Many here find that a tough one to get right.

 

[Monitor]

Tough to argue with that. Schott lost two sales from me because they can't manage to take an inch or two off their jackets here or there.

Sure they can. They do custom tailoring.

 

[kronos77]

^^^Meanwhile, Schott shipped out a few zillion jackets, OTR sizing, to paying customers while they lost a couple of sales to.....

OK, your point is what? That they don't care? I guess not. They don't care. I don't buy.

Sure they can. They do custom tailoring.

They aren't taking cutom orders. Again. They weren't a few months back. They always seem to be too busy to take a custom order. I have no idea how they operate, but it would be nice if they set up a simple, limited MTM operation, maybe for just a few of the premium models. Full custom is another story.

 

[IXL]

OK, your point is what? That they don't care? I guess not. They don't care. I don't buy.

That was the point, exactly. They don't, nor do they need to, care. They ship boatloads of jackets.

 

[Monitor]

You know what sucks about Schott, though? That they charge more for larger size numbers. Most manufacturers do that but it still sucks that you have to pay a $100 extra for a sz. 50. It's nonsense 'cause 32 costs the same as 46.

 

[ButteMT61]

You know what sucks about Schott, though? That they charge more for larger size numbers. Most manufacturers do that but it still sucks that you have to pay a $100 extra for a sz. 50. It's nonsense 'cause 32 costs the same as 46.

We've been through this can o' worms before.
As one of the big victims here I can state that I don't like it either, but I also understand a small uncharge as more hides are used. $100? No, not that high, but this is one of those old arguments I'll try to stay clear of. It IS nice that none of the custom makers I've used has ever charged me more for my big *ss, but at those price points, it's really moot isn't it?

 

[Blackadder]

I'll take the bait and say the following...HD is right 100%. Schott can't compete with the likes of Vanson. ( in most circumstances )
Here's why:
There are quantifiable differences between Schott and Vanson. Having owned dozens, literally, dozens of each maker this is why I believe this to be true: 1. Weight, it takes two 118's to equal 1 model E. 2. purpose driven cuts and 3. ease of customization.
The same applies up the chain. It's not a pyramid with a gold tip builder at the top. It's a circle with customers needs being met around it. Schott makes a great jacket, no doubt and no argument. I would argue the 654 is the finest looking CR ever designed in history. Vanson makes a better piece of purpose driven gear. Vanson is not a brand known outside the riding community. A Schott jacket can be purchased through Nordstrom. And the same jacket can be seen on their website advertised as legit riding gear. It's not. Not even close. A 2.5 oz pebbled, naked CHP is not gear. It will shread like mozzarella on low slide across pavement.

And I also feel, Aero makes a much nicer piece of casual gear. I'd certainly prefer my bootlegger to my model E out on the town, off the bike.

Please don't get me wrong here. I love Schott jackets, owned a stack of them, love Vanson jackets, owned a stack too. There's no knocking the quality, workmanship, history and aesthetic of a Schott. But if I find myself slip sliding away down a piece of asphalt...I for damn sure hope I'm in my Vanson and nothing else! They are meant for it, will repair the damage (for free in some cases) and have built their name on saving peoples asses, to wit there are many testimonials and track proven stories.

It's really not a question of superiority. That's a silly argument, I think, as both makers produce fine goods. It's purpose. What's the purpose. Choose accordingly.

For some reasons, all OTR Vanson I see at various dealers are made with competition hides which make them too heavy and hard for most people outside the riding community despite the fact that they offer almost all their basic models in firenze leather.

It is true that Vanson is not as well known as Schott but Vanson does have cross-over models that are occasionally sold at premium department stores.
http://www.highsnobiety.com/2011/05/13/vanson-x-junya-watanabe-comme-des-garcons-eye-leather-jacket/
It seems people buy or notice the cross-over models purely because of the other name on the jacket.

One of the reasons I can think of that makes Schott more mainstream is that Schott apart from leather jackets and MC gear produces other garments. Vanson on the other hand licensed their non leather garments to the Japanese to be made for the Japanese market only. Focusing on core/heritage vs expanding into the mainstream, kind of Levi's vs Lee in terms of marketing strategies.

 

[ton312]

For some reasons, all OTR Vanson I see at various dealers are made with competition hides which make them too heavy and hard for most people outside the riding community despite the fact that they offer almost all their basic models in firenze leather.

It is true that Vanson is not as well known as Schott but Vanson does have cross-over models that are occasionally sold at premium department stores.
http://www.highsnobiety.com/2011/05/13/vanson-x-junya-watanabe-comme-des-garcons-eye-leather-jacket/
It seems people buy or notice the cross-over models purely because of the other name on the jacket.

One of the reasons I can think of that makes Schott more mainstream is that Schott apart from leather jackets and MC gear produces other garments. Vanson on the other hand licensed their non leather garments to the Japanese to be made for the Japanese market only. Focusing on core/heritage vs expanding into the mainstream, kind of Levi's vs Lee in terms of marketing strategies.

That's a good point and I do recall Vanson getting in bed with Barneys in a collab Rock and Roll jacket. It was awful. The Junya collab however was quite good, no compromise in terms of the leather and the end product definately benefited from it, where the Barneys jacket really suffered.

 

[ButteMT61]

You also see Vanson used in moto shots. Vanson is known among riders.

 

[Monitor]

Vanson has been collaborating with some really high fashion brands lately (there's that Comme de whatever Vanson but I don't know anything about it as I close the browser tab the moment I see those words), but what separates them from Schott - or from any other company talked about on TFL - is that Vanson makes modern racing jackets and racing suits for the actual sport events.

We've been through this can o' worms before.
As one of the big victims here I can state that I don't like it either, but I also understand a small uncharge as more hides are used. $100? No, not that high, but this is one of those old arguments I'll try to stay clear of. It IS nice that none of the custom makers I've used has ever charged me more for my big *ss, but at those price points, it's really moot isn't it?

lol Butte, I must've missed that one. But I agree. $100 is too much - and following that logic, the 32 - 36 should be $100 cheaper, yet they're not. I wonder if they're afraid people would then try to squeeze into smaller jackets just to save a couple of dollars. XD

 

[jacketjunkie]

I think all makers have advantages and disadvantages.. Aero uses the prettiest leather, but most of their pattern are not so good, super low armholes, rising sleeves and all that comes with it. Schott leather is fairly thin compared to the other makers favored here, still their pattern are better than Aeros and leather still thicker than any mall jacket. Vanson uses crazy strong leather, but most their jackets are very biking-only by design and make you look like a wannabe if you wear them out to town, can't be worn well casually. Also, as a short guy, I would like to point out that their sleeves are way too long for me and very often very wide too. Owning two Aeros, a Schott, a Vanson at the moment and I found none of them to be perfect in all regards. This is why I will buy from Johnson Leather in the future. Their pattern are great, they do all kinds of customization and have a broad selection of leathers to choose from. Stay away from their finished leather though, always go for the naked cowhide or special leathers as the overdye clx. Apparently, "finished" in their Books means corrected leather with artificial grain as opposed to naked "real untouched grain". I had to make that painful experience very recently with the M120 I ordered from them. Jacket is the best fit I ever had but the leather is looking so unlike cowhide, more like goat, very artificial, i already consider ordering the same jacket again in a different leather, naked this time.

 

[Edward]

It's not really fair to compare Schott directly to Aero (and vice versa), imo. Totally different business models - it's like comparing Alpha to Buzz Rickson. One is dealing with a stock product on a mass-market basis, the other is a small-run product, catering to a niche market. Both totally valid, but very different beasts. I've owned both Schott 618 and an Aero MC; ostensibly the same jacket. In all honesty, the Aero is the better jacket qualitatively, but there is a significant difference in price (about GBP150, or c USD225). I'm selling the Aero and keeping the Schott because the bodyshape / cut of the Schott just works better for me. I'd certainly buy Schott again (I also want to try an Aero version a size up some day), though. Good, solid, production line jacket, and the odd bargain to be found in sales and so on. I don't attach any real value to the 'Made in USA' thing, however it does mean a reasonable assurance that it's unlikely to have been produced in unsafe conditions by exploited workers, which is not always the case for some otherwise equally nice but markedly cheaper jackets. I've not yet owned a Vanson, but I do rather like them. I especially appreciate that they have retained a range of classic designs, and that you can buy them with little or no exterior branding on them.

 

[kronos77]

Schott leather is fairly thin compared to the other makers favored here, still their pattern are better than Aeros and leather still thicker than any mall jacket.

I keep hearing this and I am convinced that the people saying it are comparing the Horween CXL to one of Schott's fashion leathers, not the heavy naked cowhide. Aero lists the FQHH as 3 oz. Schott lists the heavy cowhide as 3 oz. I have both and they seem to be the same thickness.

Johnson Leathers would be perfect except I just don't care for the leathers they use. If only I could source my own, and that isn't easy.

 

[nick123]

I can't speak the present, but having owned a 70s Schott CHP in naked cow, comparing it to an Early 80s cow Langlitz, the Langlitz leather just feels of a higher quality (subjectively) and seems to age more elegantly. Maybe marginally thicker, but it's more of an instinctual quality difference. That said, the muted black Schott uses is visually just pretty. They have the color thing down pretty well. Langlitz has better hardware. I don't care for the sleeve zip pocket on the Columbia either. So each has its merit. I'm sure I'd get hurt on either on a bike...

I may opt for another "new" OTR Schott in the future. They have a lot in their catalogue. OTR saves a lot of anxiety and is in some ways a more pleasing experience. Some of their longer car coats look pretty nice.

 

[Monitor]

Schott Naked cowhide is where it's at.

Here's a photo of that 118 I'm selling vs. Vanson comp weight. You can see that the leather on both is around the same thickness. Even with the supposed 0.5 difference, this Schott that I have is still heavier than any Aero FQHH I've handled. Make no mistake - Schott makes a really heavy jacket.

 

[kronos77]

Nick123:

Langlitz is a whole different category. I have a sample of the cow and it is probably 4 oz or more.

And yes, for "pretty", Schott is at the top of the list. The unfinished hide lets the oils show through. CXL is good looking in its own way. Both are worth having.

 

[Blackadder]

I keep hearing this and I am convinced that the people saying it are comparing the Horween CXL to one of Schott's fashion leathers, not the heavy naked cowhide. Aero lists the FQHH as 3 oz. Schott lists the heavy cowhide as 3 oz. I have both and they seem to be the same thickness.

Johnson Leathers would be perfect except I just don't care for the leathers they use. If only I could source my own, and that isn't easy.

That makes sense, especially those Schott jackets with filmsy split hides
http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/...com/en/store/gmmstore/item/schott-3121010-09/

and btw you can now get Horween CXL Schott jackets.
http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/earthmarket/item/sch7447/
http://ca.complex.com/style/2015/10/schott-nyc-limited-edition-horsehide-leather-jacket
http://wear.jp/item/4646304/

 

[Blackadder]

That's a good point and I do recall Vanson getting in bed with Barneys in a collab Rock and Roll jacket. It was awful. The Junya collab however was quite good, no compromise in terms of the leather and the end product definately benefited from it, where the Barneys jacket really suffered.

I now remember seeing a Vanson jacket in horrible green firenze leather at the discount outlet of a local fashion store but my focus was on the Vanson Chopper and Vaj3 in competition hide next to it. Well, they were at a huge discount but they are also huge for most Asians not to mention the weight and thickness (as said these are sold as everyday wear in a fashion store).
I have tried the OTR Chopper and it is simply too big for me, getting it shortened by Vanson costs USD 200 and I also need the shoulder and sleeves trimmed which I don't even know if Vanson would do.

 

[plainsman]

In Europe, and at least in France, the prices for the best Schott jackets (e.g. 118) are on par or higher than a bespoke Aero. So, honestly the choice is easy.