A "Mad Men" discussion: Theory about Campbell's Suits

[Weston]

I debated whether to put this in motion picture, general discussion or what but I noticed something in the past two episodes with Pete Campbell.

At the end of the previous episode, Freddie gets fired. Campbell is wearing his usual suit - a slightly primary navy color which seems reminiscent of a little boy's suit. He and Peggy are the children of the office - Campbell even remarked on it when he said "You might want to stop dressing like a little girl." (The suit thing is even brought up by Jimmy Barrett in this ep: "The man in the grey flannel suit" he says - referencing the book? or movie which was the stereotype of the 50s businessman, or adult.

After Freddie is fired, he wears a grey suit, like everyone else, for the first time - trying to be a grown up.

Next episode (last week), he arrives wearing the grey suit. But then he crashes and burns, Don chides him for not doing the research before the meeting, and defeated, he returns to his "little boy suit" once more. Each time he tries adulthood and is defeated and has to return to his former wardrobe.

I don't think I'm imagining it, I've seen it twice now.

 

[Fletch]

Slightly primary navy?

I think I know the one you mean - it's almost a cobalt blue, very slender cut and short jacket. Pete wore it with a matching tie in one episode - made him look like the college intern or a very junior salesman.

I forget - was Pete old enough to have gone to Korea? That strikes me as an important subtext of manhood in that era: who had gone to war and who hadn't, or hadn't had to.

 

[Max Flash]

I can't say I've noticed a correlation between the suit Pete wears and his behaviour. However, I think the cobalt suit (it certainly is not any shade of navy!) serves two purposes:

1. It highlights Pete's youthful, brash demeanour. He is constantly seeking undeserved promotions and stepping out of line as an account exec, as opposed to a creative. It makes Pete more noticeable, and more cringe-worthy, as a result. It also shows Pete to clash with the older, more-experienced yet stuffier elements in the firm. Don is more youthful than others but still conforms to the more conservative side.

2. It juxtaposes with Pete's grey suit well to demonstrate how much Pete admires Don and wishes to emulate him (Don largely wears a lighter grey suit and I think Pete probably bought his grey suit to copy this). However, Pete's attitude of loyalty and admiration for Don (shown by his grey suit) is juxtaposed with his immature desire to stand out and go a different direction (shown by the louder cobalt suit).

I think that point 2 probably equates well with the grown-up/little boy point - I haven't studied the episodes closely enough to comment definitively. However, I think the cobalt suit also indicates resentment at being knocked down a peg or two after out of line behaviour. It is a mark of rebelliousness (albeit in a school-boy way). It contrasts with Pete's peers in the office, who dress conservatively, and even geekily, with short-sleeves and ties.

Finally, the frequency with which Pete's cobalt suit appears demonstrates that Pete has very few suits (two?). He is very much a junior, on a junior salary.

 

[Max Flash]

I forget - was Pete old enough to have gone to Korea? That strikes me as an important subtext of manhood in that era: who had gone to war and who hadn't, or hadn't had to.

He probably would have been old enough to catch the end of it, on the basis that he is (I think) 26 in the first series, which must be set in 1960 given that it deals with the Nixon-JFK presidential campaign. The Korean War was 1950-53 so Pete would have been 16-19 during it.

However, on the occasions when Pete is almost fired, reference is made to his family connections. I expect therefore, that as an East Coast WASP, he would have been able to get out of it, even if he did come up for conscription.

I think MadMen concentrates more on who had fought in WW2 as the context for who was a 'man' and who wasn't. I expect as educated Ivy-Leaguers, few of Pete's colleagues would have gone to Korea.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Pete definitely wasn't in Korea.

I recall a seqence in one of the early episodes where Roger (the WWII vet) admonished Don (the Korean vet) that the younger men in the office hadn't been in the service, and so they had no idea how to be truly loyal to their CO and take orders without question.

And Pete is part of the old-money Dyckman family - there's no way he's only got two suits! But I agree that they have a way of making him look like a little kid playing dress-up in his father's clothes, as part of his obnoxiously privileged personality.

 

[Max Flash]

And Pete is part of the old-money Dyckman family - there's no way he's only got two suits! But I agree that they have a way of making him look like a little kid playing dress-up in his father's clothes, as part of his obnoxiously privileged personality.

Having only watched the first series, and not the second, I don't think one can necessarily state that he has lots of possessions because he comes from a rich family. In one episode he is effectively cut off by his father who wants him to learn the value of money and so won't pony up for the Manhattan flat Pete wants. It is up to his wife's father to provide the deposit.

Also, I don't think Pete dresses in his father's clothes - quite the opposite. The trendy cut and colour of his suit indicate that he is very much of the younger generation, trying to move in a different direction.

I haven't studied the series closely enough to know definitively how many suits Pete has but the cobalt one crops up a lot. I think this is intentional, and I can only recall him appearing in two suits, the other being grey.

I think you missed my point, which was that Pete is torn between emulating Don in manner, career and conservative dress, and being more of an upstart looking for quick success, as shown by a more racy dress style. It's not about Pete wanting to be more grown-up than he is, it's about him being a rebel.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Well, I have to disagree with you on nearly every point:

Pete doesn't try to emulate Don in any way. He hates Don with a passion, thinking (rightly) that Don is an impediment to his advancement at Sterling Cooper.

Pete is not a rebel in any way. He's totally conservative old-money, reeking of self-superiority and privilege. (And I'm sure he's got a closet full of suits too, despite sometimes being "cut off".) Don't mistake callousness (with his family)and ruthless ambition (at work) for rebellion.

If anything, Don is the one with the rebellious streak. Quite apart from reinventing himself and living a lie (lots of them, actually!), he's the one who's been hanging out smoking grass with beatniks and skipping work to watch foreign films. Pete is way too conventional for such things: after all, he's in Accounts, not Creative.

I think you're reading too much into the show's wardrobe. I don't think Pete's cobalt suit is meant to signify anything special. While the suits reflect the limited choices that were acceptible business attire in the early 60s, they don't seem to me to define the characters the way the women's clothes do (e.g., Peggy's prim outfits vs. Joan's bombshell look).

 

[texasgirl]

pictures

two pictures from episode 10, last Sunday:

Next week:

Last year:

 

[PADDY]

This is like a literary film critics seminar...

Some GREAT stuff and interpretations/insights coming out of this thread. Well done everyone!!:eusa_clap Totally loving this one! and just fantastic photos!! AMC have really done themselves proud with this production.

Still not sure 'what' the suits might say about the character of 'Campbell,' other than to confirm what a total lightweight he is among his peers. He presents as being foppish and even younger than his actual young years and lacks a 'needed' worldliness and maturity that becomes even more pronounced in the company of individuals such as the flawed, yet Byronic Hero of Draper and even his family + inlaws.
Sadly, even a change in the colour and fabric of his suits is unlikely to redeem this 'boy' man trying too desperately to swim in a man's world.

 

[Max Flash]

Well, I have to disagree with you on nearly every point:

Pete doesn't try to emulate Don in any way. He hates Don with a passion, thinking (rightly) that Don is an impediment to his advancement at Sterling Cooper.

Pete is not a rebel in any way. He's totally conservative old-money, reeking of self-superiority and privilege. (And I'm sure he's got a closet full of suits too, despite sometimes being "cut off".) Don't mistake callousness (with his family)and ruthless ambition (at work) for rebellion.

If anything, Don is the one with the rebellious streak. Quite apart from reinventing himself and living a lie (lots of them, actually!), he's the one who's been hanging out smoking grass with beatniks and skipping work to watch foreign films. Pete is way too conventional for such things: after all, he's in Accounts, not Creative.

I think you're reading too much into the show's wardrobe. I don't think Pete's cobalt suit is meant to signify anything special. While the suits reflect the limited choices that were acceptible business attire in the early 60s, they don't seem to me to define the characters the way the women's clothes do (e.g., Peggy's prim outfits vs. Joan's bombshell look).

Fair enough - I can agree to differ. There clearly isn't a 'right' or 'wrong' answer and the fact we have differing views shows what a great programme it is.

However, in my defence, I will say that Pete does seem to emulate Don (at least in the first series - I haven't seen the second yet) in some respects, e.g. when he tells Don that it is very important to him that Don is impressed when he brings in the Clearasil account. In other respects, he rebels, such as when he demands the promotion that goes to a lateral hire in the end, or when he shops Don to the boss over his background.

That's my take on it. I'm not trying to change your view or claim my view is right or anything. Just saying what I think!

It's a great thread - really enjoying it!

 

[3PcSuit]

Just as a polite reminder: outside of the United States shows are not aired at the same time, but are delayed.

Please please please try not to give too much away to those on this forum not from the States!

 

[Tomasso]

Just as a polite reminder: outside of the United States shows are not aired at the same time, but are delayed.

Please please please try not to give too much away to those on this forum not from the States!

Here, get caught up.

It's best to assume that any discussion of a current show or movie has an implied spoiler alert.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Fair enough - I can agree to differ. There clearly isn't a 'right' or 'wrong' answer and the fact we have differing views shows what a great programme it is.

However, in my defence, I will say that Pete does seem to emulate Don (at least in the first series - I haven't seen the second yet) in some respects, e.g. when he tells Don that it is very important to him that Don is impressed when he brings in the Clearasil account. In other respects, he rebels, such as when he demands the promotion that goes to a lateral hire in the end, or when he shops Don to the boss over his background.

That's my take on it. I'm not trying to change your view or claim my view is right or anything. Just saying what I think!

It's a great thread - really enjoying it!

I'm not trying to change your mind either, and I agree that the show is complex enough to be open to many valid interpretations. And sorry for the little teeny spoiler I accidentally mentioned.

What I will say about the second season is that it's OUTSTANDING. After a somewhat slow start, it's been a series of unexpected surprises (which immediately make sense in retrospect afterwards) and fascinating twists, just as sharp as the first season. The show is consistently brilliantly done in every regard, an instant classic that's simultaneously about the early 60s and today...

In a way, I envy you folks who still have the whole second season ahead of you! Now that we're getting near the end (three more?), I'm already starting to anticipate the awful wait for the third season!