Forgotten Man
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,944
- Location
- City Dump 32 E. River Sutton Place.
I have a close friend who’s a crime historian of the Prohibition and Depression eras. He has read many books pertaining to the life of famous Gangsters and Lawmen and everyday life of those years.
I recall a post about the Mobster’s Ball in San Fran and some members feeling uneasy about a themed event relating to that side of history… well, my friend wanted me to help those understand the period a little better before jumping to the normal conclusion regarding Gangsters and Mobs of the “roaring twenties” and “dirty thirties”.
Here are his words:
The typical idea of gangsters being killers and plunderers; who is "good" and who is "bad" battle can only be said by someone who has a limited knowledge about the subject other then what Hollywood has portrayed.
First off, everyone needs to know that John Dillinger and Al Capone could not have existed for one millisecond without the protection and help from the police and politicians.
Most people don't know that many of the bigger bank robberies were arraigned by the banks themselves. What had happened was that bank officials had stolen or embezzled large amounts of money to invest in the stock market. Well the market crashed and they had to make up the money some how so a robbery was arraigned. They got a hold of the mob through dirty cops who had those connections. The mob got a hold of Dillinger or someone of his profession. The bank robbers would come in and steal say 50 thousand, and the bank would claim 250 thousand was stolen, or what ever they needed to make the books balance again. The mob, police, and politicians would get a cut.
Did you know that police would talk some random hobo into robbing their local bank? He'd tell them, "I'm the law and I'll make sure I don't catch you and we can meet outside of town after and divide the loot". Well when the hobo/bank robber met the law officer outside of town after, he would be killed and the money taken. Some times the law officer would actually collect a reward in addition!
Let’s talk about Lee Simmons. Never heard of him you say?
Well he was head of the Texas prison system when Clyde Barrow was there. Did you know that he organized death squads to go to the various prisons KILLING inmates he deemed "troublesome"?
Did you know that Frank Hammer, the man who killed Clyde Barrow, is credited with killing 55-65 men? That’s like 5 times the number of men Clyde was even involved killing (he only pulled the trigger on maybe 4 people). Frank Hammer was a KILLER with a badge. And he ENJOYED it!
Did you know that the East Chicago cop directly involved in killing Dillinger was boyfriend to a madam and DIRECTLY connected to the Chicago mob? He was not an unusual kind of cop.
This is only the TIP of the iceberg!
So the idea that enjoying this part of our nations history, that involves gangsters and bank robbers, is promoting killing or robbing is naive in the extreme. There's more to life and history then the shallow, millionaire peacocks of Hollywood… even they had dirty rotten skeletons hanging in their closets! Not all but, enough to make mention… no one on this earth is, or ever was perfect!
I don't see where anyone, with an incomplete understanding of this subject’s history, should be censoring anyone’s interest in this period. Especially to make some "moral" point that's based on flawed knowledge.
Knowledge is power; before taking a standing on a historical or moral topic, one should be well informed and well educated to what he or she believes in.
Thank you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
His words may be blunt however, to the point without fancy coats of sugar. He is about promoting real history, the way it happened; Hollywood seems to misrepresent sides in many cases… always makes the law out to be the good guys… not always the case. In those early days, it was almost like the old west… there was very little true law and order in large cities such as Chicago and New York. Not saying that there weren't any good men on the forces of Chicago or New York in those days, just saying that it was tougher to be such and those who were had very little say because the upper brass was corrupt and one had to do things they didn't feel right about to keep his job and the bread on the table in those hard times.
History is so fascinating, when one really digs, one finds answers or, finds out more then they’d expect to find. History is full of mystery and stories that only witnesses can tell… and thank goodness a good deal of them have recorded what they remember for future generations.
FM~
I recall a post about the Mobster’s Ball in San Fran and some members feeling uneasy about a themed event relating to that side of history… well, my friend wanted me to help those understand the period a little better before jumping to the normal conclusion regarding Gangsters and Mobs of the “roaring twenties” and “dirty thirties”.
Here are his words:
The typical idea of gangsters being killers and plunderers; who is "good" and who is "bad" battle can only be said by someone who has a limited knowledge about the subject other then what Hollywood has portrayed.
First off, everyone needs to know that John Dillinger and Al Capone could not have existed for one millisecond without the protection and help from the police and politicians.
Most people don't know that many of the bigger bank robberies were arraigned by the banks themselves. What had happened was that bank officials had stolen or embezzled large amounts of money to invest in the stock market. Well the market crashed and they had to make up the money some how so a robbery was arraigned. They got a hold of the mob through dirty cops who had those connections. The mob got a hold of Dillinger or someone of his profession. The bank robbers would come in and steal say 50 thousand, and the bank would claim 250 thousand was stolen, or what ever they needed to make the books balance again. The mob, police, and politicians would get a cut.
Did you know that police would talk some random hobo into robbing their local bank? He'd tell them, "I'm the law and I'll make sure I don't catch you and we can meet outside of town after and divide the loot". Well when the hobo/bank robber met the law officer outside of town after, he would be killed and the money taken. Some times the law officer would actually collect a reward in addition!
Let’s talk about Lee Simmons. Never heard of him you say?
Well he was head of the Texas prison system when Clyde Barrow was there. Did you know that he organized death squads to go to the various prisons KILLING inmates he deemed "troublesome"?
Did you know that Frank Hammer, the man who killed Clyde Barrow, is credited with killing 55-65 men? That’s like 5 times the number of men Clyde was even involved killing (he only pulled the trigger on maybe 4 people). Frank Hammer was a KILLER with a badge. And he ENJOYED it!
Did you know that the East Chicago cop directly involved in killing Dillinger was boyfriend to a madam and DIRECTLY connected to the Chicago mob? He was not an unusual kind of cop.
This is only the TIP of the iceberg!
So the idea that enjoying this part of our nations history, that involves gangsters and bank robbers, is promoting killing or robbing is naive in the extreme. There's more to life and history then the shallow, millionaire peacocks of Hollywood… even they had dirty rotten skeletons hanging in their closets! Not all but, enough to make mention… no one on this earth is, or ever was perfect!
I don't see where anyone, with an incomplete understanding of this subject’s history, should be censoring anyone’s interest in this period. Especially to make some "moral" point that's based on flawed knowledge.
Knowledge is power; before taking a standing on a historical or moral topic, one should be well informed and well educated to what he or she believes in.
Thank you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
His words may be blunt however, to the point without fancy coats of sugar. He is about promoting real history, the way it happened; Hollywood seems to misrepresent sides in many cases… always makes the law out to be the good guys… not always the case. In those early days, it was almost like the old west… there was very little true law and order in large cities such as Chicago and New York. Not saying that there weren't any good men on the forces of Chicago or New York in those days, just saying that it was tougher to be such and those who were had very little say because the upper brass was corrupt and one had to do things they didn't feel right about to keep his job and the bread on the table in those hard times.
History is so fascinating, when one really digs, one finds answers or, finds out more then they’d expect to find. History is full of mystery and stories that only witnesses can tell… and thank goodness a good deal of them have recorded what they remember for future generations.
FM~
