A few new vintages! would love some help dating them....

[lostinperiphery]

I've gotten a few new vintage fedora's over the past couple of months, and would love a bit of help dating them! bit by bit I've been picking up on some of the clues that help date various hat brands, but certainly not enough to to give any more than a smidge of 'educated' to my 'guessing'...

first one is a dobbs, a nice warm grey (apparently called "dawn"). 2 1/4" overwelted brim which is oddly the widest brimmed vintage fedora I own. underneath the sweat is a paper slip marked $17.95 Dawn. included was a note that mentioned that this hat was originally purchased in the 50's by a gentleman who worked as a special agent for the southern pacific railroad.

 

[lostinperiphery]

Next, I got another dobbs, a black, with a bit stingier 2" brim with guild edge. In certain light, it seems as though it has a very very dark blue tint, though I imagine the color is intended to be black. Under the sweat is a paper tag, filled out by hand with E1C198 and a price of $17.50. its marked as a 7 1/2, but I was disappointed to find that it measures just over a 7 1/4. I may see if I can have someone stretch it to a proper 7 1/2 (which will probably require a new sweatband, yes?). I wish it weren't so snug, as I really like this one.

 

[lostinperiphery]

And most recently, I snatched this knox custom, which is a dark charcoal grey. Even more stingy at 1.75" I still like the look! This charcoal is perhaps my favorite of my small collection. Wonderfully soft and took various creases better than any of the other fedoras I own. It too has a cavanagh-like 'custom edge' (I do love these). The sweatband has a bit of stretch built into it, which is quite comfy! I didn't find any price tags inside, and I'm curious how the 'custom' title ranks in knox's lineup of quality? I'm assuming by the style that its from the 60's perhaps?

 

[Garrett]

1960's

 

[ScionPI2005]

Gorgeous pictures lostinperiphery! I especially love the first, warm gray, Dobbs, as well as it's connection to a special agent. Where did you find that one, and do you know who wrote the note?

 

[fluteplayer07]

Nice pictures! And some really good teardrops! Did you do them yourself? And what kind of hat stands are those?

flute

 

[lostinperiphery]

Gorgeous pictures lostinperiphery! I especially love the first, warm gray, Dobbs, as well as it's connection to a special agent. Where did you find that one, and do you know who wrote the note?

Thanks!
I actually got this one from a fellow lounger, in response to a wtb I posted. The note did include the original owners name, as well as his special agent business card. I'm not sure who wrote the note...

 

[lostinperiphery]

Nice pictures! And some really good teardrops! Did you do them yourself? And what kind of hat stands are those?

flute

thanks! I did the creases in all but the grey dobbs. I liked the teardrop it came with so much there was no reason to change it. The other two came with rather sloppy crowns, so I re-did each of them. The charcoal took a gorgeous teardrop, but I decided to go with a centerdent to change things up.

The "stand" is actually a towel bar from ou bathroom haha. I just balanced the hats their for photo.

 

[fluteplayer07]

thanks! I did the creases in all but the grey dobbs. I liked the teardrop it came with so much there was no reason to change it. The other two came with rather sloppy crowns, so I re-did each of them. The charcoal took a gorgeous teardrop, but I decided to go with a centerdent to change things up.

The "stand" is actually a towel bar from ou bathroom haha. I just balanced the hats their for photo.

Great improv (lol), and even better creasing!

 

[Chinaski]

first one is a dobbs, a nice warm grey (apparently called "dawn"). 2 1/4" underwelted brim which is oddly the widest brimmed vintage fedora I own.

For all the pedantic hatters out there, that Dobbs appears to be an overwelted brim, not underwelted. It's a good looking hat, and I have no clue as to age.

 

[ScionPI2005]

Thanks!
I actually got this one from a fellow lounger, in response to a wtb I posted. The note did include the original owners name, as well as his special agent business card. I'm not sure who wrote the note...

Thanks for the info! Knowing even a part of a vintage hat's history makes it even more rich an item to have in your collection.

 

[Brad Bowers]

The first Dobbs is from the '70s, possibly the '80s. The other Dobbs and the Knox are no earlier than late-'50s, but more likely from sometime in the '60s.

Enjoy your finds!

Brad

 

[lostinperiphery]

The first Dobbs is from the '70s, possibly the '80s. The other Dobbs and the Knox are no earlier than late-'50s, but more likely from sometime in the '60s.

Enjoy your finds!

Brad

wow really? the light warm grey one? I guess whoever wrote the note claiming it was purchased in the 50's was confused :/

curious, but what clues indicate it as being from the 70's/80s'?

 

[Brad Bowers]

A few things.

The liner is a later style, and the plastic tip protector is also a key clue. Dobbs was still using oilskin tip protectors in '59. The block of the crown looks like more like a current Garland-made block rather a classic Dobbs block. The sweatband also has a later look to it.

The clincher would be the tags under the sweatband. They'll tell us if it's pre-1972 or not. What do they look like?

Brad

 

[ScottF]

wow really? the light warm grey one? I guess whoever wrote the note claiming it was purchased in the 50's was confused :/

curious, but what clues indicate it as being from the 70's/80s'?

Hate to be cynical, but if it's an ebayer's description, you might as well toss out everything and just ask for clear pictures if you have any doubts. I saw a hat recently on ebay described as 1937. The seller got VERY irate when I told her that it was from at least the '60s and likely much more modern. I think a lot of ebayers pride themselves in their ability to make up convincing lies...I mean 'stories', and they get very upset when caught.

 

[lostinperiphery]

Hate to be cynical, but if it's an ebayer's description, you might as well toss out everything and just ask for clear pictures if you have any doubts. I saw a hat recently on ebay described as 1937. The seller got VERY irate when I told her that it was from at least the '60s and likely much more modern. I think a lot of ebayers pride themselves in their ability to make up convincing lies...I mean 'stories', and they get very upset when caught.

No this was a printed note included with the hat... I received it from another lounge member from a WTB ad I posted. I wasn't even aware of the note until I received the hat... not like someone was pitching me a story to get me to buy the hat :shrug:

oh well, I still like the hat! the special agent story is a mystery though

The clincher would be the tags under the sweatband. They'll tell us if it's pre-1972 or not. What do they look like?

I'll post a picture this evening ... the liner is loose, no longer stitched. It could be possible the liner was once replaced, though the newer sweatband and block shape may still indicate a newer hat... lets see what the tags reveal

 

[lostinperiphery]

ok here we go... does this add anything to the mystery? also shown in this photo is some sort of union emblem on the back of the size tag...

 

[Art Fawcett]

A few things.

The liner is a later style, and the plastic tip protector is also a key clue. Dobbs was still using oilskin tip protectors in '59. The block of the crown looks like more like a current Garland-made block rather a classic Dobbs block. The sweatband also has a later look to it.

The clincher would be the tags under the sweatband. They'll tell us if it's pre-1972 or not. What do they look like?

Brad

Brad my friend, we are going to disagree on this one. The first hat IS 50s and that is indicated by the slant of the Dobbs logo. late 50s or early 60s it went to level with the sweatband bottom as indicated by the second hat. I'm not so sure that what you see as plastic isn't oilskin. I've had many that era that were plastic so we might be looking at an exception to the rule. I believe the story. )) Can I assume that you have found the slant to not be a good indicator anymore because it was used after the 50s? I agree this one is confusing but I keep going back to the slant.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Brad my friend, we are going to disagree on this one. The first hat IS 50s and that is indicated by the slant of the Dobbs logo. late 50s or early 60s it went to level with the sweatband bottom as indicated by the second hat. I'm not so sure that what you see as plastic isn't oilskin. I've had many that era that were plastic so we might be looking at an exception to the rule. I believe the story. )) Can I assume that you have found the slant to not be a good indicator anymore because it was used after the 50s? I agree this one is confusing but I keep going back to the slant.

First, it appears I was wrong, a it looks like a pre-1972 hat, based on the labels underneath, but just barely. That style of longer paper label was in use in the '60s until the bitter end, and I don't know if Koracorp continued using them for a period or not. Later they switched to the big labels we know from HATCO today. The adhesive label is not the perforated type that Hat Corporation of America used throughout the '50s. I've seen them before, but can't remember the context.

Second, Art, what I've found is that the Dobbs logo with the coach (as seen on the second hat) starts showing up around 1954-1955, replacing the older slanted Dobbs logo, which had been around since 1908. However, the slanted Dobbs logo reappears sometime in the '60s, but this time it's stamped in gold. I haven't seen one in gold that dates from pre-1955, but maybe you've run across one.

In any case, I still say it's not from the '50s.

Brad