A Dying Breed During a Terribly Sad Time

[jamespowers]

And it sure makes it a whole lot easier when you are looking for a dance partner across a crowded club. A few friends of mine kind of ran afoul of that.

Regards to all,

J

 

[varga49]

Hmmm

Nobody I know has actors for role models! Well I did like Capt Kangaroo!
Cheer up Jonsey! and welcome to the lounge!

 

[Bebop]

Nobody I know has actors for role models! Well I did like Capt Kangaroo!
Cheer up Jonsey! and welcome to the lounge!

No kidding! If this generations role models are actors, vintage or fresh off the shelf, there is something very wrong.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

The current state of affairs did not start with our generation. It really started after WWI with the youth culture of the 1920s. You had another big nudge after WW2 and a huge jolt in the late 1960s.

I think the argument that actors were more moral or praiseworthy in the past is probably not the greatest for the relative morality or worth of the generations. Where I think the modern culture really shows its bankruptsy is in its celebration of mediocrity, its postmodern pessimisim and lack of common values or guiding ideology.

The terrible music, architecture, clothing, etc is not the cause, it is merely a symptom of the disease.

 

[Section10]

The terrible music, architecture, clothing, etc is not the cause, it is merely a symptom of the disease.

Too true!

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Btw, it also just occurred to me that the very idea that actors, musicians and other artists would be considered proper "role models" is a modern invention of the same period I mentioned. The idea of a stage actress, music hall girl, or the like being a role model in polite company would have been fairly risque in 1880.

 

[LaMedicine]

Btw, it also just occurred to me that the very idea that actors, musicians and other artists would be considered proper "role models" is a modern invention of the same period I mentioned. The idea of a stage actress, music hall girl, or the like being a role model in polite company would have been fairly risque in 1880.

Hmmm. I grew up in the '50s- ealry '70s. (Egad, that dates me!) No, neither actors nor musicians were considered positive role models. Public figures in the popular entertainment field were often regarded with a slight air of disdain. Classical arts figures--music and arts--fared better. I remember wanting to be a female Albert Schweizer (not Schwarzenneger) or Madame Curie. I used to pore over biographies of Abraham Lincoln, Florence Nightingale, and such. Look where all that got me to now!

 

[photobyalan]

... I remember wanting to be a female Arnold Schweizer ...

You wanted to follow in the footsteps of the man who founded the Caran d’Ache pencil company?[huh]

 

[Bebop]

You wanted to follow in the footsteps of the man who founded the Caran d’Ache pencil company?[huh]

I don't consider myself a comedian but.....She probably meant "Albert Schwarzenegger".

 

[Jonesy]

Darn you Matt Deckard! You told me to post it here, and look what happened! haha! Just so you guys know, I wrote this little speil just to get something off my chest and email it to a few friends. It was all Matt Deckards fault for having me post it here. HAHA!

Marty M, thank you! And Shindeco, I apologize. That's exactly what I meant. Most men are dressing too feminine! And still, sexual prefference makes no difference to me. I have many gay friends, and I love 'em all, but they dress like men.

And sure, you can find pics of various celebs that are dressed nicely. The sad part is that none of them are considered role models, and a large part of the teens have NO CLUE who they are! I can swear to you, you could walk into any high school in America and ask who Morgan Freeman is and you'd MAYBE get 5 kids that knew.

And I wasn't really using Bonnie and Clyde as rolemodels...ha! Just using that pic as a conparison with today's typical "couple."

 

[LaMedicine]

I don't consider myself a comedian but.....She probably meant "Albert Schwarzenegger".

Yep
That's what I get for being in a mad dash. I meant the Nobel laureate/missionary/organist/medical doctor.
Well, anyway, many of the kids around me had one favorite biography or another of some historical figure, and we'd talk about them. Didn't see much of that kind of conversation in my kids' generation. I see even less of that kind of book reading these days.
I can't really say whether it is for better of for worse, though, that those considered role models these days are people who are real-life figures with both their good and bad sides exposed, than the greats of the bye gone days, who probably are elevated to sainthood by the biographers, anyway. At least, the modern day "heros" are human in their achievements and failures.

 

[Deleted member 259]

Even Socrates wrote about how the youth of his generation were lacking in taste, morals, and listened to bad music.

I'll try to find the direct quote.

Edit:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners,
contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and
love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants,
not the servants of their households. They no longer rise
when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross
their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

(often attributed to Socrates, it may have actually been written by Plato)

 

[Baron Kurtz]

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners,
contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and
love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants,
not the servants of their households. They no longer rise
when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross
their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

Excellent.

Moving on ... I must say, the modern guys in that pic on the first page don't strike me as particularly effeminate. A number of them look ridiculous. But feminine? I just don't see it. What do we want them to be dressed like? Construction Workers? Policemen? Sailors? Native Americans? haha the simpson's where homer thinks bart is gay just came to mind. The steel factory! We know a little more about gender identity than in the past. People don't need to live in hiding any more. The varied closets are open. I suspect they wont close again. Were this the case in the golden era, i wonder how many "role models" would today be vilified by the very people who hold them up as heros of a bygone age where men were real men and women knew their place.

Neither do i understand why people feel so threatened by effeminacy. As a fairly effeminate person, i encounter this every day. I'm truly interested. I've read the psychology behind the fear but i don't think that explains much. My God, many people consider anyone who cares about how they look to be effeminate (that is, pretty much everyone on this forum!).

As for morals, let's not forget the golden era of Hollywood sex and drugs parties. Remember Lionel Atwill?

My views on the other stuff can be found elsewhere. We've been through this all before, i recall.

bk

 

[geo]

...of lamenting today's youth

What's different this time is that it's the youth lamenting about their contemporaries.

 

[Section10]

What's different this time is that it's the youth lamenting about their contemporaries.

I see that as a good thing. If nothing else, it shows that at least some of them are capable of looking at how trends are going and are analytical enough and interested enough to care about what they see going on. It's a comfort to find that independent thought is not quite dead yet.

 

[Baggers]

Hmmm. I grew up in the '50s- ealry '70s. (Egad, that dates me!) No, neither actors nor musicians were considered positive role models. Public figures in the popular entertainment field were often regarded with a slight air of disdain. Classical arts figures--music and arts--fared better. I remember wanting to be a female Albert Schweizer (not Schwarzenneger) or Madame Curie. I used to pore over biographies of Abraham Lincoln, Florence Nightingale, and such. Look where all that got me to now!

Knowing more than a few, I can totally agree with your comment! Seriously, there was a time when wanting to go into the theatre was equal to wanting to become a prostitute. And in earlier eras, actors were not allowed to be buried in hallowed ground (thank goodness for my sake that they've lighten up on that prohibition. They have, haven't they?).

Choosing any modern celebrity as a role model is dangerous, in my opinion.

Cheers!

 

[Naama]

I just don't get it, why is it such a bad thing to be feminin???? Gah! :rage:

Naama

 

[herringbonekid]

My God, many people consider anyone who cares about how they look to be effeminate (that is, pretty much everyone on this forum!)

i agree Baron.
i don’t wear vintage clothing because i’m on a moral crusade against the decline of western civilisation. i wear it because its stylish and well made and it suits me. i certainly don’t wear it because i think it is what a ‘man’ should wear. (as it happens i AM a man, and i DO think men dress badly, but that’s not WHY i wear vintage. confused ? bear with me.....)

there are many ‘manly’ types of behaviour that i have no interest in and even embarass me. i’ve never considered myself to be a good example of traditional ‘manliness’. traditional codes of dress are no longer considered the norm and therefore to dress traditionally well today is seen as a form of rebellion. it is anachronistic, eccentric and even a little weird to most people. i’m an artistic, sensitive male who obviously takes care about his appearence*. most straight males are probably already thinking ‘gay as a goose’. i’m not gay, and i couldn’t care if anyone thinks i am.

and all of these so called ‘feminine’ guys everywhere........comments like that remind me of the older generations of the 60s who, (talking about hippies) would say “you can’t tell the difference between the boys and the girls these days�. if its ‘feminine’ to display traits of sensitivity, or vulnerability, or to not swear continually or intimidate others with aggressive behaviour, then i’m happy to be called feminine. if male behaviour is undergoing some kind of public ‘feminisation’ then i can only conclude that that is a good thing. i see disgusting ‘male' behaviour almost every day.



*a kind of wartime-collegiate-rebel-dandy-nerd ensemble if you’re interested.

 

[Baggers]

I just don't get it, why is it such a bad thing to be feminin???? Gah! :rage:

Naama

Well, if one is a girl, it's not. However if one is a boy...

Cheers!

 

[Naama]

Well, if one is a girl, it's not. However if one is a boy...

Cheers!

I think also boys should have the right to be feminin! Since girls have the right to be manly(?) don't have the right word in my vocabulary, sorry.........................

Naama