A disturbing trend

[Tin Pan Sally]

Oh for the love of all that is vintage

Originally Posted by herringbonekid
I'm sorry Michaelson, but i saw that original post and i don't think it was derogatory or mean. she was merely stating a preference for original cars. YOU added the word 'redneck' which is the only derogatory word in the quote. the association between 'rockabilly' (the word you chose to exclude) and 'redneck' is obviously in YOUR mind.

Why, thank you for noticing that, herringbonekind. Seeing that you're located in England, and I live and work in Tennessee, located in the deep South of the United States...you're absolutely correct.... rockabilly and redneck are interchangeable terms in the area I live. Interesting you should recognize that.
Odd your attempt at sarcasim was actually correct (or am I wrong in this?). That's why I said 'paraphrase' in my post.
Regards! Michaelson

======================
YIKES!
I got your point, Michaelson, and it is a good one. I'm still holding a grudge for a while though because you misquoted me, then denied it rather that apologizing.
In the context of a thread with a few of us discussing our preferences for the build and design of the 1930s -40 vehicles in their original condition, I wrote;

My post: "I don't care for the rockabilly car show mismatched Frankenstein hot rods either. Still better than most modern vehicles though."

Your quote: "Another post stated they didn't like 'Frankenstein, redneck hodrods' (parphrased, but true to the statement), stating that unless it's vintage, it's trash."
========================
I don't know how it is in Tennessee, but in Phoenix we often have rockabilly car shows with bands of that genre. If we changed those flyers to "Redneck Car Show" we would draw an entirely different crowd. The words are not interchangeable in my vocabulary.

Just felt a need to defend myself from being misunderstood. I'm not sorry that I like what I do. I am sorry if you felt that was some sort of personal slam. That was not my intention.

 

[Tin Pan Sally]

P.S.

In the future I'll PM people with these sorts of replies.

 

[varga49]

I've been scanning through the site (I've been fairly tied up with work and haven't been able to come here as often as I used to), and have read several strings that disturb me a great deal. These discussions have a great deal of, how to put it, 'snobbery' going on. A lot of the old 'looking down the nose' at folks who don't follow or do what YOU might be doing in terms of dress or practice. As I've said in my title, I find this disturbing. I know a lot of the posts have been done in jest, but a lot was flat out mean natured. The Wal-Mart vs Dollar store dress is one example. To stereotype folks who go to these stores is, as I said, 'mean natured'. It hasn't been said yet, but the term 'trailer trash' hasn't been posted. It may as WELL been, but not in those words.

Another post stated they didn't like 'Frankenstein, redneck hodrods' (parphrased, but true to the statement), stating that unless it's vintage, it's trash. Well, that may be your opinion, but the statement sort of caught me by surprise, as it came out of left field in a vintage car discussion, and a lot of folks DO like these cars, but don't fall into the trap of calling those who don't 'car snobs'.

Why are we posting/thinking this type polarization now? This has never been a standard here at the Lounge before, but it's all through the site now. This 'I'm better than THOSE slobs/ us vs. them' is getting more and more prevalent here, and the constant 'amen's that these statements get do not reflect well on this site in my opinion.

Come on folks...if you can't accept people for the way they are, let alone attempt to understand WHY they're where they are, you're missing out. Let's not go down that road. There are to many sites on the internet that practice this type of thought process.

We're better than that....or used to be.

Sorry to sound 'preachy', but like I said, this trend is WAY above where we originally started out, and I'm a bit disappointed today from what I've read.

Regards! Michaelson

I'm glad you brought this up. It does at times, ever since I've ben here (ok not that long) that there exists a certain amount of,( while I wouldn't call it snobbery), elitism. As for those that take exception to this post I say this "if the foo sh*ts wear it!

 

[Michaelson]

In the future I'll PM people with these sorts of replies.

Good idea.

If you felt the need to 'defend' yourself, you've done so. You're holding a grudge? Why?

I have no reason to apologize, as I plainly stated I was paraphrasing a statement made on the forum (I mentioned NO names, nor the specific post, so YOU decided to put the spotlight on yourself. So be it.)
Things you say in Phoenix are NOT what we say in here Tennessee, so I'm sure the folks who look in here from, say, the UK, have NO clue what is being discussed here. The fact that you state you think hotrods are cars with mismatched parts, 'Frankensteins', are insulting to folks who build hotrods. I know several who do this professionally, and they bristle at this type description of their profession. This is EXACTLY the type negative statements I was talking about in my original post. You can make a point without insulting those who DON'T agree with what you believe or think. Whether you meant to or not, you did. THAT'S what I'm talking about.

Thank you for making the point for me. This is a very good example.

If you still feel you need an apology....ok, I apologize. I have no idea why, but there it is for all to see.

I also thank all the folks who have sent me PM's agreeing with me. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has noticed this going on.

Regards! Michaelson

 

[Twitch]

I for one like all types of automobiles- Classics, hot rods, street rods, exotics, sports cars, dragsters, land speed record cars etc.

I own a car that is VERY original. My 1950 only has most chrome redone, newer paint, radial wide whitewall tires, and new upholstery on the drivers seating area only. The remainder is pure 1950 Packard- interior, headliner, carpets, engine and all else. OK I wouldn't modify this car since this is the way I found it. But there are many cars in sad shape that will never run on their frozen straight eight engine ever again. If someone put a modern V-8 in one and restored it to running condition that would be fine since it's all about DRIVING the old cars. No it wouldn't win antique sanctioned car competitions but there are plenty of cars in that category too.

Too many people are obsessed with original condition. In restrospect most of the modified cars were done decades ago and have constantly changed owners and had work done by each to keep them roadworthy.

Today I can tell you no one is taking a nicely restored 36 Ford or even a nice original condition 53 Packard and chopping it up. Rodders would look at you as though you lost your mind if you suggested you do that. Why would they wish to spend $25,000 for a restored car to begin with having the concept of rodding it? Not economical feasible. The other thing is no body wants brakes or other systems from 1936 on their car. If they're building a rod they're going to get modern components for safety, reliability and durability. Frankly about the only thing usable on a "classic" or other old car would be the body. Everything else right down to the chassis is not safe to apply 400+HP to. And with the availability of many fiberglass repro bodies there's no need to even patch, sand out and prep an old rusted body.

In the 1950s and 60s cars from 1941 or older were just old cars. They weren't classic or special in any sense. Only kids would bother with a 20 year old car since they were cheap and they could be modified easily. Now the very cars people were driving in the 60s are sought after classics. In 1965 they were just neat cars.

I like original old cars best. I have seen some that have had a little modification and they look kinda cheezy. Thing is I have rarely seen one that could not be put back to showroom stock easily if desired. The radical custom ones that are chopped are completely different as they were in the 1950s when customizing was very popular.

Everybody has a different way of looking at old cars and I respect that as long as they don't become obsessive about "their" point of view.

 

[Michaelson]

In describing your Packard, you've described my 1950 P-20 Plymouth to a tee....with the exception that I upgraded mine from 6 v to 12v. Easier starts...I can get a jump start now should I ever need one without worrying about burning up my starter, and at night I can SEE now with brighter headlights on the dark country roads I have to drive after producing my night classes.

I enjoy them any way they come. Of the hardcore hotroder/ratrodder, the only one's I've ever seen that take perfectly good originals and hotrod them are the one's on TV. The professionals in our areas take solid but essentially rust buckets that are on the fast track to crushing, then they take them down to the frame and start out from there.

Your Packard is a beauty, by the way!

Regards! Michaelson

 

[Wild Root]

The Enemy: Boyd Coddington.

Now, I'm with you guys on your opinions. But, having seen many episodes of "American Hotrod" I have seen a few very nice original rust free cars get lost to the torch.

I enjoy to see what cars looked like originally. I'm not trying to be obsessive in my point at all. I go to car shows and people stop and look at my beat up '46 and see the original motor in there with all stock set up and are puzzled and ask: Is that what they really looked like? I always laugh because EVERY ONE has big power plants and this and that’s under the hoods.

It's becoming so rare to see an original or stock example of a vintage pre 1950's car at most shows today.

I was at Pomona last month for the Auto swap meet and I parked next to an all original 1940 Plymouth four door. When I say all original, I mean it! Right down to the voltage regulator! Only new things on the car were the tires and a new oil filter. The car had only 14,000 original miles on it too! No rust, original upholstery was mint! Car was selling for 10,000. OBO. I talked to the man who owned it and he told me everything I wanted to know about the car. Said it was only driven on nice days since 1940. Even had the original spare tire in the trunk!

Now, I have seen Boyd buy cars like this from 1st and 2nd owners and chop them up and toss everything out and make a digital, plastic computerized pile of 20 coats of lacquer out of a nice old car. For me it's erasing history.

Face it, there are those who don't care what condition a car is when they buy it if they have their mind on a custom or a hotrod. I agree that it isn't bad to change out a few parts on an old car to upgrade it and up the performance on it but, it's when they start putting in 1980's upholstery, door handles, steering wheels, bucket seats and gages that I don’t understand.

Ratrods are cool, I enjoy them! I also enjoy mild customs. You mention fiberglass? Yes, there’s that but most guys I talk to want steel at any cost. And some are lazy so, they’ll take an all restored or original car in perfect shape to just cut down the welding and sanding.

When it comes to cars, I’m not a Nazi but, I have my favorites. I just see how more and more people hotrod; the more and more original cars will be only seen in museums.


=WR=

 

[Pilgrim]

As a musician, I'd like to comment on "rockabilly". At least in musical circles, it refers to a type or style of music that I might describe as country-spirited rock & roll. It's highly rhythmic, guitar-centric, and usually played with an upright (or "doghouse") bass rather than an electric. (I'm a bass player so that makes a difference to me.)

The cross-section of people who enjoy rockabilly as a musical style is rather remarkable, and it cuts across many grographic areas, income and cultural strata.

Of course, such a term can always be used in contexts which tend to be highly local with a meaning different than that found in other areas. If a usage in one area links "rockabilly" and "redneck", I suggest that usage is more local than widespread, and that the user should recognize that this connection/connotation may not exist elsewhere.

Me, I prefer surf music. And I enjoy both original and modified cars, provided that the workmanship is good and the finish work nice.

 

[Senator Jack]

Rockabilly

Rednecks

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[jamespowers]

Those are Klansmen NOT rednecks.

 

[Wild Root]

HAhahahhahhahahha, oooooh man!

Good illustration Jack! Well, there are a few "rednecks" involved I'm sure.

=WR=

 

[shamus]

All redneck are not in the KKK.

I realize you're trying to be funny, but it's not.

The klan is a political group, not a social stereotype label.

 

[Wild Root]

Good point. A bad group of "politicians" at best.

=WR=

 

[Michaelson]

Rockabilly

Rednecks

Regards,

Senator Jack

Thank you, SJ. Gentlemen of the jury, regarding what my thesis was trying to point out to the members.....I rest my case.

Regards! Michaelson

 

[Senator Jack]

Now hold on. Is everyone going to say that the term 'redneck' now has positive connotations? I don't know what sort of spin the rest of the country is putting on it, but to gothamites, someone like Andy Griffith is a Southern Gentleman and someone like David Duke is a redneck. And when I'm down south, I know the difference between gentlemen and rednecks. Gentlemen give you a cheery greeting and welcome you to their town; the rednecks pull up to your car and make passes at your girl. Sorry, but that's how we see it here in the Northeast.

But if people want to start taking their epithets and turning them into positives, then I guess it's with a new-found pride that I can start calling myself a greasy guinea meatball.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Miss Neecerie]

Maybe I will just post this repeatedly until you all are annoyed enough...

Hence why, perhaps, we, as people who all want to maintain civility and polite society in times that are less then polite, should perhaps refrain from calling anyone (not just fellow Loungers) these terms, or any other terms that differentiate people in ways that are less then kind.

Perhaps I should extend that to....debating which of these terms that we all -know- are insulting someone or other....is pretty pointless as well.

 

[shamus]

So every guy who makes a pass at a woman who's with another man is a redneck and therefore a member of the KKK?

Wow, they sure have a lot more members than I thought they did. And world wide too!

Andy Griffith from Mayberry is a Television character.

David Duke is a real person and being a politician I'm sure he'd give you a "cheery" greeting too.

 

[Senator Jack]

Like that's never happened in Sheepshead Bay,

Sure, that happens. And we call them guineas, schmucks or whatever term applies. That's why I wouldn't take pride in calling myself a guinea.

Andy Griffith from Mayberry is a Television character.

And that's whom I meant - Andy Griffith the actor, and not Sheriff Andy Taylor, the character he played.

Again, I guess we're wrong up here in our thinking of what the term redneck connotes. But I don't believe I've ever heard one Southerner who's moved to NY refer to themselves as a redneck. In fact, they always say, 'that's what I moved away from.' Indeed, if came to the city and proclaimed with pride, 'I'm a redneck,' people would look at you pretty strangely.

Now as for rockabilly, being a lifelong fan I know it has nothing to do with being a redneck at all. I would never call Scotty Moore a redneck because he's not a redneck guitarist. he's a rockabilly guitarist. And following that thought, I would never call Steve Cropper or Duck Dunn or Jimmy Carter or Al Gore or millions of other Southerners rednecks just because they're from the South. But if I pull into a gas station down there and there are two guys in a truck with a Confederate flag on it, I'm going to instantly think 'redneck.' (And yes, I do find the Confederate flag an offensive symbol)


Regards,

Senator Jack