A coat for hillwalking

[Creeping Past]

Is leather totally out, then?

I'm ashamed to say I hadn't thought of leather till I read your comment. However, I've been following a current thread about an Admiral Byrd jacket and that just might work. And, recalling previous threads, I'd be entirely happy to stride across a hilltop wearing the Eastman Brooklands coat, even though it's intended for the opposite purpose.

 

[Kodiak]

You could always look at some other Filson products. The canvas is excellent - I know how it rains in England, especially the southern part, and the waxed cotton is the only fabric I've ever seen that is 100% waterproof.

Can't vouch for the wool but I do like the looks of some of those coats.

(PS- another good thing about the canvas stuff from Filson is the liner option. Buy a canvas coat and a liner, zip in the liner in the winter and leave it out in spring/fall.)

 

[BellyTank]

I think this kind of leather garment is too heavy- especially in a coat length.
Almost prohibitive. Not so much room for layering- too much and you loose the fit. Strenuous activity is not really a leather coat thing. It can be a real "drag" literally, when you've chosen to wear leather and it was a bad decision based on the activity.


B
T

 

[David Conwill]

If your tailor can make one of these, to my mind that would be the ideal outdoor coat. Someday when I'm rich, perhaps I'll have Indy Magnoli whip one up for me:

U.S. M1938 Mackinaw

My experience with WWII surplus has been that those items were made for layering and that they all used nice quality materials. Unfortunately, age has embrittled most of the original stuff that I'm reluctant to use it.

The other option I would consider would be one of the blanket coats from River Junction Trading Co. I really like the design, and wouldn't mind owning one, but I'm not incredibly hot on the stripe they have on theirs. (Sorry, no pic handy, but Google should lead you right to them.)

Finally, there's always the U.S. M1965 field jacket. Lightly water repellant (but will soak through in a downpour), covers your bottom (a must for me in any kind of cool weather), and readily available for minimal cash outlay. This is the only one of my suggestions that I have experience with, but all my experiences have been good.

-Dave

 

[Creeping Past]

U.S. M1938 Mackinaw

Thanks, David. That looks substantial, to say the least. I think I remember seeing a new reproduction of this coat in my searches over the past few months. But I've just checked WPG and it's not something they do. Maybe I'm confusing your photo with the M43 with woolly liner sold by Soldier of Fortune.

But that looks like just the coat for next winter, which I'm already preparing for somewhat impatiently. Must concentrate on khaki...

Edit: Thanks for putting me on to River Junction. What a great site! Their trousers look very good.

And their "Drifter" coat is so close to the 1938 Mackinaw that I might just get myself one.

Sorry to say we Brits are doing well for repro clothing at the moment...

Edit2: The Ebay shop Spearhead Militaria makes the repro Mackinaw I was thinking of. But theirs looks thin and unconvincing compared with your photo.

Edit3: Of course, it's Lost Battalions that make the repro 1938 Mackinaw that I had in mind and like most of their stuff it looks proper.

 

[John in Covina]

Filson Tin Cloth Field Jacket at Cabelas

 

[John in Covina]

Carhartt Chore Coat at Cabelas

 

[Creeping Past]

Filson Tin Cloth Field Jacket at Cabelas...Carhatt...

Filson Tin Cloth Field Jacket at Cabelas

Thanks, John. Both look tough as anything.

I'm sticking with layers up to and including Shetland wool at the moment, for ease of movement and because the English climate is usually clement between now and early winter, despite negative propaganda.

Currently hauling an original WW2 US rubberized poncho (repro version here, at WPG) if the weather forecast's poor.

I'm thinking of upgrading to a smarter poncho, perhaps this repro 1917 British MK VII Groundsheet (Rain Cape/Poncho), which will no doubt get some of the usual muttered comments from petrochemical by-product wearing hillwalkers.

Things said to me by silly people I've met while walking in vintage-style kit include: hobnails are dangerous, wool doesn't breath as well as a fleece, and I'll likely die of exposure or need rescuing if I walk around without a Goretex anorak on. The latter was uttered sagely by a twerp I made the mistake of chatting to while walking on the Sussex Downs in late summer in shirtsleeves, with leather boots on and carrying a light canvas ruck...

 

[John in Covina]

Wool stays warm when wet and is a marvelous material, so versital.

 

[Graemsay]

I've been looking at the Fjallraven jackets in the last week or two, as I wanted something that's waterproof, but not plastic.

Fjallraven have a proprietary material called G1000, which is a waxed polyester cotton blend. According to their website, it's water resistant (showerproof), windproof, hard wearing and even mosquito proof!

I'm planning on getting myself a Telemark II jacket (in dark olive), and it might well suit your needs too.

http://www.fjallraven.com/Products/Product.asp?ItemId=498

Incidentally, after Mallory's body was found on Everest tests were done on reproductions of the clothing that he was wearing. The researchers were rather surprised to find that his apparently unsuitable outfit outperformed modern alternatives.

 

[Creeping Past]

I've been looking at the Fjallraven jackets in the last week or two, as I wanted something that's waterproof, but not plastic.

Fjallraven have a proprietary material called G1000, which is a waxed polyester cotton blend. According to their website, it's water resistant (showerproof), windproof, hard wearing and even mosquito proof!

I'm planning on getting myself a Telemark II jacket (in dark olive), and it might well suit your needs too.

http://www.fjallraven.com/Products/Product.asp?ItemId=498

Incidentally, after Mallory's body was found on Everest tests were done on reproductions of the clothing that he was wearing. The researchers were rather surprised to find that his apparently unsuitable outfit outperformed modern alternatives.

Thanks, Graemsay.
I've been looking at Fjallraven's jackets over the past year and in my opinion they win out over the other polycotton or nylon alternatives. The Telemark you mentioned is good, as are the Greenland, the Oban, and the Montt.

For the time being, I've ordered but not yet received a Schipperfabrik British MKVII raincape/poncho to use in rainy weather. It'll take the place of the late-WW2 US rubberized poncho I bought some time ago. Like the US WW2 poncho, the WW1 repro one will fit over all layers, including a rucksack.

That Mallory clothing project has been mentioned, and illustrated with photos, over at the Adventurer's Gear thread, if I remember right. I've been fascinated by that project for a couple of years. I've been looking and the nearest thing to Mallory's Burberry jacket, in looks if not mountain-level functionality, is a double layer cotton ventile shooting coat currently sold by Purdey, the gunmaker (see link above).

 

[Graemsay]

Fjallraven Telemark II

I picked up a Fjallraven Telemark II at the end of last week, and have worn it a couple of times since.

The jacket's cut pretty loose, and I possibly could have gone down a size. However it is a shell jacket, and so needs to be big enough to fit over other layers.

It feels pretty durable, and isn't as bulky or heavy as I would have thought, though it's still a bit heavier than a Gore-Tex shell. The zip feels strong, as do the press-studs, and there's no velcro on it. However there are one or two loose threads, but I think that these are more cosmetic and could be fixed in five minutes with a pair of scissors.

It's quite a warm jacket, and not as breathable as I thought it would be. I haven't been rained on whilst wearing it, so I can't comment on its waterproofing.

It's also got a lot of pockets.

The jackets seem to vary slightly in their details: The Montt has a mesh lining and zip-off hood; the Telemark is unlined with a concealed hood in the collar; the Greenland is lined with a pile fleece. I haven't seen the Oban yet.

 

[Dudleydoright]

Hi

Hi Creeping,
Check out the modified Westwinds and original Westwinds anoraks I have. I recommend both. There' more about them in the anoraks tgread. The other plus is that they don't weigh a lot to have t stuff themin your pack.

in olive green with two bellows chest and two bellows lower pockets and deep zipper.

In indian orage (colour doesn't look right with flash) Single chest pocket and shorter zipper.

I stood about for 4 hours watching my son play rugby in the pouring rain and didn't get wet !!

Dave

 

[Hal]

Check out the modified Westwinds and original Westwinds anoraks I have. I recommend both...I stood about for 4 hours watching my son play rugby in the pouring rain and didn't get wet !!

But didn't run-off of rain from the jacket cause your trousers to become twice as wet? Overtrousers would seem to be necessary here, but are often uncomfortable. A longer coat as opposed to a jacket would also help but might otherwise be impractical. I see no easy solution to the run-off problem.

 

[Creeping Past]

Thanks for those pics, Dave. I've been following the anorak thread and appreciate you posting them.

I've been trying to find out more about how waterproof 2-layer Ventile is, but there seems to be a split down the middle of people who've used it: one side enthuse about it, the other lot complain about having to deal with sodden cotton that takes days to dry. I've noticed this split in a couple of military/outdoors forums, and I'm assuming that the main complaints come from people who've been using Ventile outerwear in the field for extended periods.

Do your Westwinds anoraks hold off water or do they soak and swell, forming a 'wet' barrier against further incoming water? How long do they take to dry.

All the best

CP

 

[Dudleydoright]

Run-off

Hi CP,
I've found that 2 layer is too bulky and sweaty - even for a natural material. Rain doesn't exactly 'soak-in' and I don't find the jackets get wet or even damp on the inside. Nor does rain run down off it like with gore-tex and the other waterproof materials. If it's raining then your legs are gonna get wet anyways without overtrousers ! Personally, if I'm out hiking, I prefer to get wet legs, otherwise I cook. If I'm stationary as at work whilst out surveying, I wear overtrousers. The water seems to bead up on the jacket and stay put unless I shake the anorak to get the beads off.

If you're considering heavier coats and even leather, then you don't do the sort of hiking I do as they would all be too bulky to stash away whilst sunny, too heavy to wear or carry and way too hot unless standing about. Layering is the key for being active.

The other nice thing about ventile is it is genuine period (having been developed during WW2) and acts as a good windproof layer allowing you to breathe (sweat) without getting wet inside. This is perfect for those windy sunny days.

It sounds like it won't be good for you though judging by what types of coats you are considering.
Cheers,

DDR

 

[Creeping Past]

Thanks for that, DDR.

At this point, I'm not ruling anything out. I'm always keeping my eyes peeled for outerwear that's functional, appropriate for the weather and stylish.

I wear layers when walking: silk/cotton or wool underwear, wool or cotton shirt, depending on the weather, wool sweater, then a tweed outer layer if the cold sets in. When wet, I use a rain cape, which allows freedom of movement and excellent ventilation. Canvas gaiters or puttees give me a bit of protection on the lower legs. But there's always a bit of damp creeping in somewhere. I don't mind that so much as I'm rarely more than an hour or so from the indoors. And I don't go rock climbing so I'm not so concerned about keeping garments close-fitting.

I'm working towards having a Ventile field coat made for me. I was considering a 2-layer garment, but what you've said makes me wonder whether it would be too bulky to carry if not wet/windy. Having said that, my tweed jacket rolls up just fine and fits under the flap of my rucksack.

If 2-layers would be too bulky, would you have any suggestions about a lining for a single-layer version? Or would it be unlined/unconstructed?

The Purdey 2-layer Ventile jacket I've linked to earlier in this thread looks quite portable. Would you say it's more for standing around in than for movement?

 

[Dudleydoright]

ventile

Hi CP,
Personally I would recommend a mid weight ventile (as I have on my orange anorak and make it a single layer. If you really want 2 layer, go for the shoulder region only.
Like yourself I come from the Showell Styles era and fashion for kit and clothing. I prefer a couple of light weight sweaters to a fleece and also use merino wool and/or silk as a baselayer. I also still use my old army shirt, KF (khaki flannel). I use Norwegian canvas ankle gaiters over my boots and also have the old Rohan Superstrider breeches that get the occassional airing. Top it off with a Bergans Original rucksack (I've got about 8 canvas rucks of various periods and makers ).

If you are looking for a very period jacket for hiking, look at the Hilltrek (http://www.hilltrek.co.uk/acatalog/Cycling_Double_Ventile_Jacket.html) cycling jacket. VERY traditional, 2 layer (In front only I think) with front and rear pockets and a collar rather than an integral hood. I'm thinking of getting one myself. In a nice olive green. VERY stylish IMVHO.

If you're ever in Suffolk and fancy meeting up one wet weekend for a ramble, let me know. You could try both my lighter and mid weight anoraks out.

The reality is that dampness is a fact of life if doing something strenuous in the wet. I find a wool sweater under the ventile makes it all very comfy !

Cheers
DDR

 

[Creeping Past]

Thanks, that's just the info I needed. I think a single layer coat, with a double layer yoke to chest and back would be just the thing.

A Suffolk trip sounds good. I've been walking there on many occasions, mostly around the Oulton area in the east and in Breckland further west.

I'm confining my walking to the South Downs for the rest of this year, as work is encroaching on my spare time. Plus there's no extra money for travel!

But a Suffolk hike early next year would be great. I may even have some Ventile of my own to show off by then.

 

[WildCelt]

Things said to me by silly people I've met while walking in vintage-style kit include: hobnails are dangerous, wool doesn't breath as well as a fleece, and I'll likely die of exposure or need rescuing if I walk around without a Goretex anorak on. The latter was uttered sagely by a twerp I made the mistake of chatting to while walking on the Sussex Downs in late summer in shirtsleeves, with leather boots on and carrying a light canvas ruck...

You'd think no one survived in the wilds before modern "performance" materials were invented.