A Civil Discourse About Reenacting

[Harp]

[War's] not always a 'hellish lousy experience' for everyone 100% of the time

Combat is always a hellish lousy experience for everyone 100% of the time.

 

[Chanfan]

While I agree that I never, ever want to be in combat, and it's a truism that soldiers generally want it even less, it's also clearly true that it, and the trappings that go with it, have an attraction.

I love doing my medieval-ish war combat, but of course, don't want anyone really trying to stick a spear, sword, or arrow in me. G.I. Joe is clearly popular, as are war games and toys of all types. I'm fascinated by various era's military history.

War is inherently interesting - just like disasters, and other unpleasant things.

 

[Sly Style]

I used to do civil war re-enacting when I was much younger. The funny part is that at 17 I was probably the most authentic person in the unit, yet I got a lot of drision because of my age. I would like to pick up re-enactment at some point in the future when I have more funds.

 

[DutchIndo]

Hi guys an FNG here, I am an old school re-enactor from the old days. I have long since hung up jump boots and Garand. I still love this era the music, movies
ect. We did an event years ago at the Chino Airshow, we set up a few
Pyramidal tents. We at the time did an Airborne display (82nd) yes the people
loved it. The thing that really did it for us was what one of the re-enactors told us. We were out walking around being visable. We had one man guard our tent
and was answering questions. He said an old Paratrooper walked in our tent
looked around and saw the cots and the gear. He started crying , it no doubt
brought back memories good or bad. That in a nutshell is what it's all about to
remember. I have spoken to many vets and what suprises them is that I cared
about what they did. Yes war sucks and it shouldn't be glorified but Vets have
paid the price and this should be honored.

 

[dhermann1]

Taking it too far!

This guy definitely carried the reenactment thing a little too far!

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...K?SITE=1010WINS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

 

[Marq]

What makes me really uneasy is things like when i was at the War and peace show at hop farm in Kent UK last year there were guys in real hard core original SS uniforms also they were mostly young.Ok so i did get the sense of fear they they must of put into people just seeing the uniform and i cannot ever imagine how jews in the war actually felt i really hate to think.I did find them very intimidating and although going to the evening dance in the uniform was completely out of order .I don't think it does people any harm to actually see ,feel and touch the uniform that instilled so much fear into so many.I feel that young people should never forget what went on in ww2 and that lessons were learned that should never be forgotton.That uniform is the epitemy of what one human can do to another and the degradation ,profanity and sheer terrer it instilled at the time.I do agree however i find fat blokes in para uniforms strange too.I like to see civvy clothing at evening dances but thats just me however i understand the Ladies do tend to like a man in uniform so the fat ugly blokes put one on and just hope they get lucky.Give me Buck shoes.Big Pants and a Hawaiian shirt any day.............Paul

 

[Miss Sis]

The War and Peace show are banning people from walking around in SS uniforms this year. About time. You get some really strange people there and I think if somesone wants to go up to a display to see a uniform, then fine, but to be minding your own business and someone appears wearing it, No thanks!

 

[cookie]

30 Years war

BTW! For those not familiar with the 30 Years War, it gives WW2 a run for its money in terms of tremendous scale, carnage and destruction. The experience of the 30 Years War traumatized Germany to the degree that you can argue that it was a contributory cause to the World Wars. The same can be said of the British Civil Wars, also in the mid 1600's. 200,000 killed in a country of 6 million. Imagine the American Civil War producing 2 or 2.5 million deaths instead of 600,000 and you get a vague idea. Between 1617 and 1650 the population of Germany supposedly went from 13 million to 8.5 million. Tho this may be an exaggeration, it was still a conflict of unimaginable horror. We humans sure are good at annihilating each other.

I did not relaize it was so much. I did read that it permanently effected the population of Germany which those stats would show.

 

[priestyboy]

Actually, you're at a point in life to portray a WWI R.A.F. pilot dragooned back into service as a Flying Instructor. It's a good excuse for lugging around a pair of model planes on sticks, ya know? And you'd be tons more authentic than the 17 year old Colonels I've seen peacocking around places like Reading.

Good point. If a guy had to do USAAF and was older, why not do an Army Service pilot? The Guys with the "S" in their wings.

And yes, 17 year old COls...gee!

 

[DutchIndo]

I understand what some of you are saying about Reenactors making you nervous. The ones that made me nervous were not WW2 (though the "Sons
of Nippon" do) soldiers. Believe it or not it is the Native Americans (1800s and
before) Why I do not know. I was at a Gun Shows years ago and I saw a
couple guys dressed as Apaches. I actually felt nervous, I mean they looked
like they stepped out of a Time-Life book ! I thought it was just me at the time
until a couple years later. I took the Family to Knott's Berry farm and they
performed the "Grass Dance" using actual Tribal members. That old creepy
feeling came over me. This is said not to insult any Native Americans. This is
said because they were REAL and it was a window into the past. They weren't
guys born in LA dressed like Krauts or Limeys.

 

[mikepara]

My 2 cents. No excuse

Being a veteran paratrooper (Parachutist) myself, I find it so annoying when I see people strutting around dressed as if they had just landed in Arnhem or just liberated Port Stanley etc. These reenactors usually portray Generals, Paras, SAS, Commandos, Guards, Pilots or SS never Army Catering Corps or RAF ground crew! so it has nothing to do with living history but everything to do with reflected glory.Collect the stuff, display it but don't wear it.

If these people knew how much they where despised by the veteran community they wouldn't dare leave the house wearing a WW2 uniform. It should be illegal to portray a conflict where there are living participants. So anything WW1 or before well, fair game.

Or is it just veteran Paras that feel this way?

 

[Spitfire]

Mikepara - I tend to agree with you. Allthough I have been to airshows (Duxford etc) where the reenactors created a very nice and true atmosphere of a squadron on standby among the planes. There we even a Luftwaffe staffel / unit with groundcrew an all.
But they also had much more than just pilot uniforms; Chairs, recordplayers, tents, cigarettepacks, teapots and cups etc. Very nice and historical right display.

But I've also seen veterans almost surrounded by overveight 101 / 82 paratroopers in St. Mere Eglise. These noble old gentlemen had to stand up to a lot of photosessions with one after the other of these reenectors.
They had to sign autographs on jackets, helmets, postcard...and then just one more shot, with the arm around this poor old guy! Like: We are buddies! We liberated this town together

The veterans did not look totally happy. Not all of them at least.
And I kept wondering what went through their heads - especially when the lookalike paratroper did not even speak english. He was belgian. Or german.:eusa_doh:
"Was it for this, so many of my friends bled and died here?"
"Was this for this, I wake up screaming every night?"

I wonder.

 

[RAAF]

I think I posted regarding the living history vs reenacting thing a few years ago. It's amazing how it's continually coming up every year or so.

I don't get the whole reenacting thing (or whatever else it's called) but have come to appreciate the public's generally postive reponse to them. My perspective is largely air shows. Reading, PA and Geneseo, NY, to be specific.

I've read with some amusement the comments directed towards paras. I would agree that many would require cargo chutes to safely reach the ground. However, I would concede that an overage/overweight guy wearing a para uniform and manning a display is preferable to no display at all.

I think the age thing is a result of a number of items. Most reenactors I've met at air shows are the children or grand children of WW2 veterans. Family history drives much of their interest. Most have been interested for years. The problem is that they choose to reenact a fixed period in time while they continue to age.

More probably, today's twenty-somethings probably have no interest in WW. The war occurred three generations ago for them. It was their great-grandfathers war. They're more likely to have an interest in the Vietnam War which is their father's war.

Reenacting is also a relatively expensive hobby. Younger folks probably don't have the disposable income to dump a few thousand $$s into a hobby where participation is likely only a day or two per year.

As for the German reenactors, I'm on the fence. Part of me sees them no differently than those wearing CW confederate uniforms or WW1 German uniforms. The "enemy" did exist and it does some service to see what they looked like. Those espousing a love for the ideology of the regime truly frighten me.

The 'hero' portrayals are another area of confusion for me. I somewhat understand that folks want to join reenactment groups rather than go it alone. If the local unit is 101st Airborne (or insert chosen 'glamour' unit here), I guess you really aren't going to siphon off any members to form the 123rd Supply Company based in East Bumbleweed, AR, circa 1942.

I think I said this previously. I still don't get the whole reenactor thing. I also don't understand people who collect stamps either.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I will go as far to say that the airshow/public battle reenactors and the private living-history reenactors are different enough as to make it hard to use the same word "reenactor" to describe them both.

Personally I would not be disappointed if I never did a public event/airshow again in my reenacting career. My friends and I usually look at them as sort of a joke. I know some reenactors are purportedly in it to "educate" the public, but personally I don't think this is the point of reenacting or living history. I can think of better things to do than be an unpaid public school teacher on the weekends.

 

[Paratrooper]

I will go as far to say that the airshow/public battle reenactors and the private living-history reenactors are different enough as to make it hard to use the same word "reenactor" to describe them both.

Personally I would not be disappointed if I never did a public event/airshow again in my reenacting career. My friends and I usually look at them as sort of a joke. I know some reenactors are purportedly in it to "educate" the public, but personally I don't think this is the point of reenacting or living history. I can think of better things to do than be an unpaid public school teacher on the weekends.

Then I ask you why do this then if you see public events as a joke?
I don't mind being the unpaid teacher for a weekend, with what passes for history in most schools what little knowdge I can pass on is a good thing.

 

[Diamondback]

I think the age thing is a result of a number of items. Most reenactors I've met at air shows are the children or grand children of WW2 veterans. Family history drives much of their interest. Most have been interested for years. The problem is that they choose to reenact a fixed period in time while they continue to age.

More probably, today's twenty-somethings probably have no interest in WW. The war occurred three generations ago for them. It was their great-grandfathers war. They're more likely to have an interest in the Vietnam War which is their father's war.

Guess that's what dragged me to an interest, even though I'm over 30 years too short on the elapsed-time clock for my particular specialty (unless I was portraying one of the General's aides, which is a possibility...) Most of my formative years were spent with a WWII vet, so I tend to see it differently than most people my age.

OTOH, I have been mistaken for being of my parents' generation, and with the right materiel, it's not that hard to put on a few more years: some artfully applied stage makeup to add lines, a little Dr. Scholl's into the hair for the graying look (an old CIA favorite trick), and voila, instant fifty-something!

 

[Miss Sis]

Then I ask you why do this then if you see public events as a joke?
I don't mind being the unpaid teacher for a weekend, with what passes for history in most schools what little knowdge I can pass on is a good thing.

I agree - what is the point if you don't like doing it?

In England it is a curriculum subject to study WW2 and the focus is on the Home Front. I have gone in to help a friend who is a school teacher by being a WVS lady for the day. The children were all dressed up and we talked in the first person about how I had helped to evacuate them, what life had been like for them in the country etc etc. It helped them to get into the role and understand what people who had really gone through it might have experienced in an interesting way.

Also at shows whilst displaying, we try to have something interactive. One of the last I had an old washtub and washboard and the children could have a turn scrubing the clothes and smell what carbolic or sunlight soap is like. Many of the children are busy telling their parents "Look Mum/Dad, that's a childs gas mask. It got the nickname Mickey Mouse..." or something similar, consolidating things they have learnt at school. The parents also learn something and the Grandparents tell us we have bought back many memories. To me, the interest lies in connecting people to history by showing them as far as possible, a snippet of real life and things they can relate to such as food, clothes, washing and household things.

Yes, it's tiring spending all day talking to people but I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it.

 

[Spitfire]

Yes miss Sis, it may be tiring but it is propably also 10 times more rewarding than running around in uniform playing soldier in some forrest.

 

[PADDY]

I'm assuming people enjoy the educational/learning side to it.

Individuals who reenact, I am assuming, do not want to be 'real' modern day soldiers in a real combat situation.
Otherwise, assuming you are in good health and in the correct age group, it is easy enough to join the Reserves (such as the T.A. in the UK or the National Guard..etc, in the US). And the odds are pretty good at getting combat experience right now with the Reserves from both the UK and US deployments.

So taking that out of the equation, it seems reasonable to think, that those that are actively involved, enjoy the opportunity to not only educate the public who watch them in action, but also educate themselves in learning what it entailed to prepare your kit, what kit was needed and why; why ground tactics evolved as they did; cooking and living outdoors; the type of language that evolved..etc, etc (for whatever era you are portraying).

And I think (and I'm former military), that in that vain, it's a positive thing. It's living history, and many folk only learn things from 'doing' and 'seeing.' Rather than just reading about it in books, or watching videos.

But I cannot imagine too many people 'really' wanting to go through all the 'cold, wet, tired and hungry' stuff where you are running on pro-plus and thinking that bushes are moving towards you (because you are so tired!), or not knowing whether a roadside bomb is likely to go off on the next patrol...which, 'sadly' you would get in the services.

But overall, I think as a living history teaching tool, it's good!!

 

[Elaina]

I used to do WWII reenacting, taken to it by my veteran Grandfather (who did his own thing there.) I always portrayed a German, and it was my grandfather's request that I started doing so. (Don't yell at me.) It was something he wanted to do, and something he wanted to make sure I got the other side of to make my own decisions on that war.

I do think that every reenactment has to have people do the losing side too.

I've done a number of the living history, reenactments. Like Miss Sis, I've done the school thing for kids, and talked in first person. Usually with a treadle and giving an account of a lady's day. I've also played a boy in civil war reenactments (when I was young and thin enough to do so), other civil war stuff, did the medieval stuff and even did the 1800's Wild, Wild, West reenactments (although my roles would vary from Saloon girl and Annie Oakley. Can't help the fact I'm a crack shot and ugly. Always seemed to fit).

I do it because I enjoy the clothes. Really, truly the shallow reason I have, but I have always tried to keep it to roles that I could at that time preform. Probably why I don't do alot of it anymore.