A better horse A-2 than a Cockpit ?

[Sloan1874]

It's a meh of a jacket, I'm afraid. All you've got is that the leather is kind of the same - though it looks as though it's been pressed to death - it's made in America by someone, and it's made with little care for accuracy - that's not much of argument for being the best A-2 on the go.
To compound it's meh-ness, the blurb claims to be a repro of McArthur's A-2, which was a Roughwear contract, and that has little in common with it: http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/gwroughwear_images7.html
As I said, if you want to have something that sits tight with 'the spirit' of the A-2, then it's Aero's Real Deal. Their standard mid-weight leather is chrome-tanned, btw, and they use every last scrap of it, marks and all, just as they did during the war.

 

[AdeeC]

Get the feeling that the OP by his tone to the thread may be trying to pick a fight. A bit sneery at everything else other than cockpit. Like others are not worthy. Nothing particularly wrong with cockpit products. I owned one when they were Avirex. Moved on to better stuff since then and so have others.

 

[Technonut]

There's no stead-fast rule against discussing any particular jacket here. It's just geared more towards vintage / vintage-style jackets, with military and moto at somewhat lesser degrees. When the military / moto jackets are discussed, there is just more general interest towards the higher-end / bespoke garments, and their makers.

I have a recent thread floating around discussing a Golden Bear A-2 that had a few interested folks, but nowhere near the interest of a thread I started discussing a custom AN-J-3, which I was having made by a talented member of the Lounge.

 

[Sloan1874]

Golden Bear are interesting, though I think sometimes the problem comes in locating this sort of stuff over here, so they get less interest - I have a permanent eBay search on for Jelado jackets, but they hardly ever come up.
The reason Cockpit don't get much love is because they are unexceptional: not badly made, not awful design, if you're looking for something that looks a bit like an original A-2, then you could probably do worse. But why would we spend our time talking about the unexceptional when we could look at the fantastic stuff produced by GW, Aero, ELC, Buzz Rickson et al, people who pour time and money into research, design and getting the damn things to look good. You won't see them peppering their jackets with patches, unwanted/inaccurate pockets, yadda, yadda, yadda....

 

[ButteMT61]

Problem is, some cockpits cost an insane amount and can be more than some bespoke.
That's nuts.
But I agree this thread is really just someone(S) tossing in sour chum into the water.

 

[Sloan1874]

So, because you're... let's be kind... carrying a bit more cushioning and Cockpit are accommodating of that, this makes them superior, does it? This is daft.
I'm trying to be as accommodating to your views as Cockpit has been to you, but your assertions are nonsense and that's not to be hard on Cockpit. They make A-2s that are not really aimed at anyone with any knowledge about the original jackets, just somebody who likes the idea of them: the patches and extra pockets, the flat leather, the voluminous sizing, all shout that. Nothing wrong with that, but I'd think twice about bandying daft ideas about them around here, it just doesn't carry any water. It doesn't do Cockpit any favours either...

 

[Benny Holiday]

off topic, but while we're here, Craig what was that awesome Aero A2 you showed us a little while back here? I can't remember if it was a Real Deal or not, but
it looked great on your slim build (and therefore should, in theory, look great on my similar physique, with any luck!). Of course, I curse the value, or lack thereof,
of the Australian dollar (currently worth 56 Monopoly cents, or somewhere thereabouts).

 

[devilish]

To the OP. 'YOU pays YOUR money. YOU makes YOUR choice'. You choose Cockpit, fine, have at it. Just don't tell others that there choice is wrong. That's the beauty of free markets and free countries (ignoring the socio-political nuances in this more general discussion). I have one of those horrible GW jackets you bemoan about that has been through hell and (literally) high water and it keeps on ticking. Looking more and more vintage as it goes on. In fact the only bit that failed was the cotton tape on an original WWII zipper it had. So that was MY money and MY choice. Vive La Difference!

 

[Seb Lucas]

Jim B I don't think your argument works all that well. It's a bit hostile and a lot subjective. As it happens, I weigh the same as I did when I was 20 (3 decades ago) so I doubt the Cockpit A2 is going to work for me in middle age any better than it would have been when I had hair and all my own teeth. It'd be baggy - the most common problem with mass produced A2's.

If they came in a trim fit for around $400 I'd certainly be tempted. That's as much as I would like to pay for any A2. US Authentic is close (wool knits, cotton lining, decent pockets) but they are also a bit off size wise and the horse hide I saw was plasticy dreadful. It should be possible to get a very good A2, very much in the spirit of an original, for a good price and from a mainstream company like Cockpit.

 

[Sloan1874]

off topic, but while we're here, Craig what was that awesome Aero A2 you showed us a little while back here? I can't remember if it was a Real Deal or not, but
it looked great on your slim build (and therefore should, in theory, look great on my similar physique, with any luck!). Of course, I curse the value, or lack thereof,
of the Australian dollar (currently worth 56 Monopoly cents, or somewhere thereabouts).

This one? It's an Aero no name 1756 contract. Looks even better now that it's softened up some more, got a bit of character and I sorted the collar:

 

[ButteMT61]

Having this old HH Civi A-2 in hand, I can see the diff's between it and a GW, Aero, etc. Yeah, it's lasted so far 50-60 years (and looks it) and I can see it's not the same as a GW, Aero, ELC, LW etc will look in the same amount of time. Would it matter at that point? Maybe, maybe not - I won't be here to post about it

 

[Fanch]

Having this old HH Civi A-2 in hand, I can see the diff's between it and a GW, Aero, etc. Yeah, it's lasted so far 50-60 years (and looks it) and I can see it's not the same as a GW, Aero, ELC, LW etc will look in the same amount of time. Would it matter at that point? Maybe, maybe not - I won't be here to post about it

C'mon Butte, don't be a half glass empty guy.

 

[ButteMT61]

There's likely a Bell curve for a $100 jacket >> 50 years and a $1500 jacket >> 50 years and how they will look and if the details today are worth it tomorrow. One of you kids here will have to carry that torch.

-EmptyGlassGuy

 

[Fanch]

EmptyGlassGuy

Glass not empty yet.

 

[Smithy]

Just read this thread and it's a no brainer really. If you want an A-2 which is as close as possible to an original wartime issued one in terms of patterns, hardwear, leather (colour, drape, grain, etc), labels, stitching, lining then the closest are GW, ELC, Aero, those newish DD ones in conjunction with GW. Simple as that.

That's not to say that Cockpit don't make a good A-2 from either the perspective of the reissued USAF A-2 pattern or an A-2 original inspired jacket but if we're talking a facsimile as close as possible to one of the wartime contracts, then the aforementioned are the ones to go for. Also keep in mind this is a forum for the Golden Era so (with a slight room for movement either side) the 1920s to early 1950s, so in terms of A-2s here, the majority of members are interested in the jackets from that period, either originals or those reproductions which could pass for being issued/bought at that time.

 

[Benny Holiday]

This one? It's an Aero no name 1756 contract. Looks even better now that it's softened up some more, got a bit of character and I sorted the collar:

Yes mate that's the one! Damn that's a fine-looking jacket! Thanks for the info on it being a No Name 1756.

 

[AdeeC]

As other have pointed out this forum is more interested in vintage style be original or repro. Harking back to a bygone era and style. Many are also leather tragics so would like original patterns made with the best and coolest leathers as well with correct details and happy to put up with clunky period hardware. There is not much interest with makers that are too loose with authenticity or details and compromise too much to modern tastes. And there is also only limited interest in current military issue jackets, no matter who makes them.

 

[Sloan1874]

Yes mate that's the one! Damn that's a fine-looking jacket! Thanks for the info on it being a No Name 1756.

The leather is seal Vicenza, knits are caramel and rust thread for stitching.
I always think that it's healthy/interesting when we get new members in with interesting opinions and ideas, but on this occasion it felt like trolling.

 

[Benny Holiday]

The caramel knits just set it off perfectly.

While I try to give new folks with 'interesting' opinions the benefit of the doubt, we have seen our fair share of trolls around here over the years.

 

[cordwangler]

"Most pre-war and wartime A-2s were constructed of horsehide, which was either vegetable- or chrome-tanned. Some original A-2's were made from goatskin (as was the Navy G-1 jacket), and others possibly from cowhide (which can be very difficult to tell from horse if tanned identically). All Spiewak and Doniger jackets are of goat, as are many Cable, Dubow, Bronco, Perry, and Rough Wear examples." (See Wikipedia on A-2 design and construction).

The question about who makes the most authentic *version* of the A-2 is so far off the mark that it's impossible to address – there were so many different types and manufacturers. The OP's non-question (it was an ill-informed statement) about and spirited defence of generic authenticity must be assumed to emerge from ignorance.

A reasonable person would possibly not have OP'd this subject.