A barf worthy rip off of an appropriated pattern

[Monitor]

The man’o’thousand rings!!! Yes he does pop up on my IG often too…

So many questions though, I think the jackets are his last problem!

But it can get worse…

https://www.instagram.com/p/CViTaY1Jy49/?utm_medium=copy_link

Bro tryna so hard not to let go he's gonna burst.

 

[MrProper]

He looks angry in about half of the photos,

But I can say the same for my photos... although, there it's all of them and not just half of them lol

 

[willyto]

The man’o’thousand rings!!! Yes he does pop up on my IG often too…

So many questions though, I think the jackets are his last problem!

But it can get worse…

https://www.instagram.com/p/CViTaY1Jy49/?utm_medium=copy_link

What the hell?!

By the way, the "Natural since Day 1" mmm yeah sure

 

[Superfluous]

Yet another “I do not like FCL’s designs/dimensions and, therefore, FCL jackets are crap” thread. Gotta have at least three such threads a year. This is the first for 2022. There will surely be a couple more before the year is over. Yawn.

FWIW, I think the FCL Jack is not a good looking jacket . . . it is a GREAT looking jacket. If I did not already own a FW Mulholland, I would seriously consider it. Is it longer than the original and other similarly styled jackets? Absolutely!! Plenty of repro manufacturers endeavor to replicate the original dimensions. That is the easy and safe route. FCL takes a different tact and offers its own individual evolution of the original. I appreciate that FCL offers something different from the others and thereby provides consumers with options. It would be a pretty boring world if all brands offered the exact same jackets with the exact same dimensions. FCL should be praised, rather than lambasted, for taking a chance and offering something different.

I was particular amused by the assertion that FCL is copying the FW Mulholland. Are you kidding? The Mulholland is itself a copy of a vintage jacket. Why isn't FCL simply copying the same vintage jacket as FW? Other manufacturers have copied the same jacket. However, in contrast to FW, FCL actually changed it up a bit. Thus, an argument exists that FW is the true copy-cat whereas FCL deviated from the original. Yet, no one criticized FW’s “copy.”

There are Thedi jackets that I believe are comically terrible. Should I start a thread just to criticize these jackets? Why? What is the objective?

Dog-piling on FCL has become a TFL sport. I suspect that many of the critics have never handled a TFL jacket and have zero personal knowledge of the relative quality. I own a FCL Tyler and have handled many other FCL jackets. The quality is first rate and not deserving of the endless criticism. The dimensions/length are not for everyone. On the other hand, they are great for certain body shapes, and for those who prefer longer jackets. That might not be your thing, but the vitriolic condemnation of the brand is not deserved.

Perhaps I should continue my reduced patronage of TFL.

 

[Superfluous]

I just reread the title of this thread: "barf worthy." Why resort to such ad hominem comments? Has this community really abandoned all sense of respect and decorum? How do you think owners of this jacket feel reading that their new jacket is "barf worthy"? Not cool.

Another consideration: when you thoroughly eviscerate a particular brand as unmitigated crap and a complete fraud, what does that say about owners of the brand? At the very least, you are indirectly suggesting that FCL owners are suckers. There are many FCL owners within TFL and I don't imagine they appreciate the indirect characterization. I don't.

 

[MrProper]

Yet another “I do not like FCL’s designs/dimensions and, therefore, FCL jackets are crap” thread. Gotta have at least three such threads a year. This is the first for 2022. There will surely be a couple more before the year is over. Yawn.

FWIW, I think the FCL Jack is not a good looking jacket . . . it is a GREAT looking jacket. If I did not already own a FW Mulholland, I would seriously consider it. Is it longer than the original and other similarly styled jackets? Absolutely!! Plenty of repro manufacturers endeavor to replicate the original dimensions. That is the easy and safe route. FCL takes a different tact and offers its own individual evolution of the original. I appreciate that FCL offers something different from the others and thereby provides consumers with options. It would be a pretty boring world if all brands offered the exact same jackets with the exact same dimensions. FCL should be praised, rather than lambasted, for taking a chance and offering something different.

I was particular amused by the assertion that FCL is copying the FW Mulholland. Are you kidding? The Mulholland is itself a copy of a vintage jacket. Why isn't FCL simply copying the same vintage jacket as FW? Other manufacturers have copied the same jacket. However, in contrast to FW, FCL actually changed it up a bit. Thus, an argument exists that FW is the true copy-cat whereas FCL deviated from the original. Yet, no one criticized FW’s “copy.”

There are Thedi jackets that I believe are comically terrible. Should I start a thread just to criticize these jackets? Why? What is the objective?

Dog-piling on FCL has become a TFL sport. I suspect that many of the critics have never handled a TFL jacket and have zero personal knowledge of the relative quality. I own a FCL Tyler and have handled many other FCL jackets. The quality is first rate and not deserving of the endless criticism. The dimensions/length are not for everyone. On the other hand, they are great for certain body shapes, and for those who prefer longer jackets. That might not be your thing, but the vitriolic condemnation of the brand is not deserved.

Perhaps I should continue my reduced patronage of TFL.

I would have understood this thread not so against FC, but rather about the partly weird sizes for us Westerners (but that may be due to my poor English skills).
Since these jackets are not my price range, I see them only on Instagram and there are already some that I like. But admittedly, the wearers are mostly Asians and less westerners.
If the sleeves were longer, so one could fit me even OTR.

 

[Marc mndt]

Yet another “I do not like FCL’s designs/dimensions and, therefore, FCL jackets are crap” thread. Gotta have at least three such threads a year. This is the first for 2022. There will surely be a couple more before the year is over. Yawn.

Fair point. Criticizing FCL for their out of proportion copies is getting rather old.

FCL takes a different tact and offers its own individual evolution of the original. I appreciate that FCL offers something different from the others and thereby provides consumers with options. It would be a pretty boring world if all brands offered the exact same jackets with the exact same dimensions. FCL should be praised, rather than lambasted, for taking a chance and offering something different.

I applaud makers who offer something different from others, in terms of esthetics. A halfbelt or carcoat with longer body length, why not? But most motorcycle jacket's design features are functional rather than esthetical. They were designed with a purpose in mind: the jacket should be comfortable to wear when riding a motorcycle.

Wearing this 27.25 inch body length FC Jack while sitting down on a motorcycle would be hugely uncomfortable as the leather would pile up on your lap, pushing the jacket upwards, choking you. Also, those wide sleeve openings will function as funnels, welcoming in the wind, ballooning up the sleeves.

If I remember correctly, you had the sleeves of your FCL Tyler altered because you thought they were too wide. So I guess to some extent you agree with the criticism.

Anyway, by now we all know FCL motorcycle jackets are more fashion statements than actual functional motorcycle jackets. Which is ok because how many of us actually wear their jackets on a mc. I don't.. And even though I'm one of FCL criticizers, criticizing them is getting old and I agree it's not cool for those tfl members who rightfully enjoy their FCL jackets.

 

[Blackadder]

Yet another “I do not like FCL’s designs/dimensions and, therefore, FCL jackets are crap” thread. Gotta have at least three such threads a year. This is the first for 2022. There will surely be a couple more before the year is over. Yawn.

FWIW, I think the FCL Jack is not a good looking jacket . . . it is a GREAT looking jacket. If I did not already own a FW Mulholland, I would seriously consider it. Is it longer than the original and other similarly styled jackets? Absolutely!! Plenty of repro manufacturers endeavor to replicate the original dimensions. That is the easy and safe route. FCL takes a different tact and offers its own individual evolution of the original. I appreciate that FCL offers something different from the others and thereby provides consumers with options. It would be a pretty boring world if all brands offered the exact same jackets with the exact same dimensions. FCL should be praised, rather than lambasted, for taking a chance and offering something different.

I was particular amused by the assertion that FCL is copying the FW Mulholland. Are you kidding? The Mulholland is itself a copy of a vintage jacket. Why isn't FCL simply copying the same vintage jacket as FW? Other manufacturers have copied the same jacket. However, in contrast to FW, FCL actually changed it up a bit. Thus, an argument exists that FW is the true copy-cat whereas FCL deviated from the original. Yet, no one criticized FW’s “copy.”

There are Thedi jackets that I believe are comically terrible. Should I start a thread just to criticize these jackets? Why? What is the objective?

Dog-piling on FCL has become a TFL sport. I suspect that many of the critics have never handled a TFL jacket and have zero personal knowledge of the relative quality. I own a FCL Tyler and have handled many other FCL jackets. The quality is first rate and not deserving of the endless criticism. The dimensions/length are not for everyone. On the other hand, they are great for certain body shapes, and for those who prefer longer jackets. That might not be your thing, but the vitriolic condemnation of the brand is not deserved.

Perhaps I should continue my reduced patronage of TFL.

There is obvious demand in the market for longer jackets. Often time we see on FL fitting photos where a first time buyer wearing low rise jeans with his newly purchased traditional moto jackets seeking advice. The fit would often be perfect but for the jacket being too short to cover their belt line. The answers from most here would be to get a pair of higher rise jeans. That is probably not the answer the first time buyer wants because low rise jeans is the contemporary style. They would rather sell the jacket than be caught wearing out of fashion jeans.
IMO one reason why Lewis Leather is in such high demand in fashion world with plenty of fashion collaboration is their longer length especially on their 70s models/designs. Before any would start labeling such as "fashion". Fashion is mostly repeated cycle of the same style. Most people here would not be caught wearing those 70s extreme low rise flare jeans today but it is still vintage style and would probably go well with 70s jackets. We see some here liking or even wearing the East West jackets but not the matching low rise pants.
I agree with you about the copying. I have often pointed out that copying does not equal rip off IMO.
First of all, rip off involves someone copying THEN stealing the market by setting a lower price. Most Japanese brands actually cost more than the "Original", that is not rip off because people can get the "Original" at a lower price. So the "Original" actually does not lose any edge and the copiers actually provided free ads and exposures. Rather than calling them rip off, the more expensive copies are often explained as tributes.
I think we can all agree that there is no rip off if the original brand ceased to exist say like Buco. Cal leather is still here but there is the Schott CHP "tribute" to James Dean not to mention all the CHPs you see from all those makers. Addidas still exists and Maison Magiela is making tons of more expensive copies of the German Army Trainers. On the other hand, it would be a rip off if someone produces a higher quality copies but selling at a lower price. So if Zara or Gap makes a leather denim jacket, that would likely be a rip off even when Levi's new leather trucker today is probably of lower or equal quality to a Gap. Oh wait, Gap did make that and I have one.
Secondly, I think we can all agree no one would call those popular European repro A-2s rip offs. They are copies and yet most here would even refrain from using the word copy. In stead the term repro is used and no, not all Eastman are faithful reproductions. Eastman has "house" jacket too. A Police jacket is like an A-2. There is no rip off in the commercial sense because Gov't commissioned and contracted the design. We see lots of makers using the same designs since the 40s. e.g. Aero is making the CHP copy and I am pretty sure they are not and has never been an US Gov't supplier.

 

[Superfluous]

But most motorcycle jacket's design features are functional rather than esthetical. They were designed with a purpose in mind: the jacket should be comfortable to wear when riding a motorcycle.

Wearing this 27.25 inch body length FC Jack while sitting down on a motorcycle would be hugely uncomfortable as the leather would pile up on your lap, pushing the jacket upwards, choking you.

For the minority of people who wear moto jackets on motorcycles, your comments are well taken. That said, most people never wear their moto jackets on motorcycles and could care less whether they are functional on a motorcycle. Most people -- me included -- purchase moto jackets purely for aesthetic reasons. We are motivated by style considerations rather than functionality.

If I remember correctly, you had the sleeves of your FCL Tyler altered because you thought they were too wide. So I guess to some extent you agree with the criticism.

I narrowed the sleeves for aesthetic reasons unrelated to functionality.

Anyway, by now we all know FCL motorcycle jackets are more fashion statements than actual functional motorcycle jackets. Which is ok because how many of us actually wear their jackets on a mc. I don't.. And even though I'm one of FCL criticizers, criticizing them is getting old and I agree it's not cool for those tfl members who rightfully enjoy their FCL jackets.

Exactly!

 

[Superfluous]

I would have understood this thread not so against FC, but rather about the partly weird sizes for us Westerners . . . But admittedly, the wearers are mostly Asians and less westerners.
If the sleeves were longer, so one could fit me even OTR.

Different FCL models fit different people. I chose the Tyler specifically because the dimensions fit my western body. The Tyler is shorter than many FCL models, and also has a chest/shoulder ratio that works for me. This is my "barf worthy" FCL:

 

[MrProper]

This is my "barf worthy" FCL:

Glad you finally realize it.
Looks as bad as my Lewis leather Corsair. lol
No, seriously, nice jacket and I don't think anyone here at TFL means anyone any harm. But many (including me) sometimes tend to exaggerate significantly in their choice of words. Be it in the heat of the moment, be it to make a point or for effect.
I can only recommend everyone not to take such things personally.

 

[moktabe]

There are many things in life I don't like....it doesn't mean they're crap though.

One mans treasure and all that.

When it comes to clothing (not necessarily just leather jackets) we all have our own ideas as to what looks good, either on ourselves or others. My personal clothing style is 40's and 50's but does that mean I should expect everyone to like it? That's a big NO. I wouldn't be seen dead wearing skinny fit trousers or jeans but do I have the right to criticise someone elses choices? Again it's a big NO.

There are many jackets on this forum that I wouldn't give house room yet again, that's my choice. Why slag them off as they're not my choice?

Certain makes seem to be 'fashionable' on here and others seem to be unacceptable, why is that? Surely if someone doesn't like a style or make then fine, just move on.

My favoured make is Aero yet I don't feel good because I'm wearing an Aero. It's because I'm wearing a jacket I like the styling of.

Might be an idea to stick to the adage of 'if someone has nothing good to say then say nothing'.

 

[ton312]

I just reread the title of this thread: "barf worthy." Why resort to such ad hominem comments? Has this community really abandoned all sense of respect and decorum? How do you think owners of this jacket feel reading that their new jacket is "barf worthy"? Not cool.

Another consideration: when you thoroughly eviscerate a particular brand as unmitigated crap and a complete fraud, what does that say about owners of the brand? At the very least, you are indirectly suggesting that FCL owners are suckers. There are many FCL owners within TFL and I don't imagine they appreciate the indirect characterization. I don't.

I agree the title was a poor choice of words and I created this thread after receiving an email about this jackets release. Skipping it all together would’ve probably been a better route, rather than creating a campfire to roast it over. For some reason this jacket struck me with its perfunctory execution, bizarre proportions and banal design.

As far as offense taken by a group who choose to patronize a certain brand, I’m sure SImmons Bilt owners would agree. I’m not comparing these two companies to each other, rather the bad mood reception SImmons Bilt owners often receive, beating them into submission and exiting the forum. Truly, I do not want to be part of that culture, nor was that my intent with this thread.

If I have offended any FCL owners, you have my sincere apologies.

And super, that FCL rip-off of the LL dominator corsair looks great.

 

[Finn Vigorous]

Different FCL models fit different people. I chose the Tyler specifically because the dimensions fit my western body. The Tyler is shorter than many FCL models, and also has a chest/shoulder ratio that works for me. This is my "barf worthy" FCL:

View attachment 409393

This Lewis Leathers Corsair rip-off is one of the best-fitting FCL jackets I have seen, but in a way it seems to combine what LL terms tight-sizing (intended for the Far East market) and their normal Corsair pattern: the sleeves are slimmer-cut than the torso, which is spot-on on the shoulders btw. but less so on the sides (for what I personally prefer). I'm not a fan of those super bulky zippers either.

What made you choose this one over the Corsair, if I may ask?

 

[Marc mndt]

the sleeves are slimmer-cut than the torso

They do look great en perfectly proportioned now, but that's not factory original.

 

[Mich486]

Don’t want to open a can of worms, but isn’t nowadays LL just a licensed copycat? if that’s the term…

I mean the guy bought the rights and trademarks and copied stitch for stitch the originals but in a way it’s not the “original” company. A bit what RMC does with the Buco label in my view. Granted LL is also made in the same country of the original company but still… if I got this wrong I apologise.

But if I got this right then one could go as far saying that a veg tan horsehide LL is a copy of an Addicts. Ok now I’m ready to be roasted

 

[ton312]

Don’t want to open a can of worms, but isn’t nowadays LL just a licensed copycat? if that’s the term…

I mean the guy bought the rights and trademarks and copied stitch for stitch the originals but in a way it’s not the “original” company. A bit what RMC does with the Buco label in my view. Granted LL is also made in the same country of the original company but still… if I got this wrong I apologise.

But if I got this right then one could go as far saying that a veg tan horsehide LL is a copy of an Addicts. Ok now I’m ready to be roasted

LOOL. You might be right! TBH, I don’t know.

 

[Monitor]

Don’t want to open a can of worms, but isn’t nowadays LL just a licensed copycat? if that’s the term…

I mean the guy bought the rights and trademarks and copied stitch for stitch the originals but in a way it’s not the “original” company. A bit what RMC does with the Buco label in my view. Granted LL is also made in the same country of the original company but still… if I got this wrong I apologise.

But if I got this right then one could go as far saying that a veg tan horsehide LL is a copy of an Addicts. Ok now I’m ready to be roasted

Couldn't possibly be any more wrong. Current owner of Lewis Leathers, Derek Harris, literally purchased the entire company, not only the brand rights and trademarks (like RMC). Even the factory is where it's always been. The jackets are made using all the original patterns. Etc. Etc. Please refer to Wikipedia article for additional details.

Addicts is making a bona fide copy of Lewis Leathers, same as FCL is making a bona fide copy of Schott, Vanson, Lewis Leathers, etc.

 

[MrProper]

I'm glad there is no copyright on leather jackets. My 5* are all copies, albeit sometimes modified. Nowadays almost everything is a copy of something. Personally, I don't think it's bad to make something good even better. At LL you only get the offered leathers, at another supplier maybe one that suits you more. Or some details might be different.
Personally, I think it's good the way it is.

 

[Mich486]

Couldn't possibly be any more wrong. Current owner of Lewis Leathers, Derek Harris, literally purchased the entire company, not only the brand rights and trademarks (like RMC). Even the factory is where it's always been. The jackets are made using all the original patterns. Etc. Etc. Please refer to Wikipedia article for additional details.

Addicts is making a bona fide copy of Lewis Leathers, same as FCL is making a bona fide copy of Schott, Vanson, Lewis Leathers, etc.

Factory? I thought it was a room behind the store front where all the sewing took place. They had a proper factory but it was long gone?

Anyway, fine I thought I read that the new owner had to go back to the LL jackets of a few decades before the purchase to re-create the right patterns. Not much was used from what was purchased if not the logos. LL from the 90s and late 80s are not what I associate with the brand today.

Anyhow, I guess the point is that there has been undoubtedly a feedback from whatever has been going in Japan since the early 90s. Sometimes is a fine line.

Yes FCL Vanson are bad practice imho. FCL perfectos don’t bother me at all from that point of view.