A-2s' with a more open neck?

[Mountain Pilot]

Dudes....
I've seen A-2s' old and new with a more open neck that others? Particularly the I. Spiewak and Sons A-2's. Any comments on this?

 

[Jacob Dubow]

Hi Mountain Pilot,

I looked at some photos of I. Spiewak A-2's on the Acme Depot site and I did not really notice a significant larger neck from those photos. Did you observe the larger open neck from photos or from examining actual jackets?

I have not had the opportunity to examine a large quanity of original jackets myself other than the ones on display at the Air Force Museum in Dayton, OH.

Maybe somebody else has further opinions on neck size. You might want to post your question on the Vintage Leather Jacket Forum and see what the consensus there is. The VLJ forum is having technical problems right now and no one can post questions at the moment. When it is up and running again, you might want to give it a try.


J.A. Dubow.........aka Ted

 

[Fletch]

I take a size 42-44 jacket but wear a 17" shirt. As a result the collar is a "bottleneck" on some period cut jackets in my size (Lost Worlds Dubow, Eastman Rough Wear 1401), and will close only very snugly over a turtleneck or light scarf.

My Schott "1987 pattern" A-2 has an extreme downward pitch to the front of the collar that is unlike any wartime A-2. The effect is a bigger neck opening even when the collar is latched - you could see the knot of a tie over it. It's comfortable but looks pretty lame compared to the crisp shirt-collar look of the old styles.

Cooper made a civilian (handwarmer pocketed) A-2 with a removable fake-mouton collar liner, which has a very large opening for its size. The collar is also unusually wide once the fake-fur is removed, and does not snap down or latch.

 

[greyhound68]

It appears to me that the Speiwak and Doniger are a little less constricting in the neck area vs my Roughwear. All are original WW2 size 44s. It could be the collar stand design of the Roughwear which causes this. My Monarch is a 46 and is a bit bigger than the Speiwak and Doniger but that may be due to the size. Some folks really like the collar stand and others hate it. I don't mind it but it does constrict you a bit in the neck area.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

a-2s for pencilnex?

indeed some a-2s have bigger nex than others...or in my experience, one really does have a bigger neck than others...that is the cooper 80s and 90s military spec a-2...the neck is definitely several inches bigger than other a-2s of the same size...

i've had an 80s-90s spiewak and sons a-2 and it does not seem appreciably bigger in the neck at all...however, oddly, the left collar point (windflap side) does seem to be a bit bigger than the right side...i've seen this on several spiewak and sons post ww2 a-2s...there is also one on the net (link below, and there was one on ebay as of my writing this) i've seen where this aspect of the collar is mentioned, however, nothing mentioned about the collar opening being bigger...i don't think it really is...the spiewak and sons apparently is a very rare post world war 2 a-2, they are not made any more...

http://casablancawatch.com/watches/under500view.asp?wid=230

johnnyjohnny

 

[Fletch]

in my experience, one really does have a bigger neck than others...that is the cooper 80s and 90s military spec a-2...the neck is definitely several inches bigger than other a-2s of the same size...

Makes sense. These were built for guys who are "built." Big neck and chest, broad shoulders, slender waist. Those issued an A-2 today are all combat-ready aircrew, with all that that implies in physical training and conditioning.
The WW2 and prior jackets were made in an era that didn't know about modern strength conditioning, and if anything, preferred its airmen on the scrawny side to save on payload.

 

[johnnyjohnny]

he's got 'the' LooK...

after fletch's always informative and insightful comments, i must ask if anyone has gone so far as to alter their body "look" to fit the ww2 a-2 look...

now, i know we're for the most part men here, so i'm not talking plastic surgery...but a number of forum members commented during Christmas that a-2s were an incentive to keep their weight down with the holiday food...i'm asking a question that goes a bit further than that...

to wit...has anyone become, say, a runner so they'd have that 'scrawny' upper body look, and would fit a ww2 a-2 more authentically? or rather than exercise, simply become anorexic, etc...or just patterned their lifestyle so they'd fit the fit...?

aside from curiousity, personally i ask because i've always been a runner, and would have that 'scrawny' fit pretty easily, but i've always detested people calling me 'thin' since high school until present day...so i balance my running with a lot of upper body calisthenix...and unfortunately still get called thin

without the time spent on upper body conditioning i'd definitely fit some really collectible a-2s i purchased, spiewak and sons size 46, which is really a 42-44 in real terms...and a schott 46 actual milspec a-2 which is full-on milspec according to ww2 standards (throat hook, no side entry pockets), and fits shoulder-wise like a 44, but is as short as a mariachi band violin player's vest...

i have to say, fitting into 501s has been a lifelong obsession (among others i won't go into here), which has inspired the running...so i understand trying to affect a look that you see as your ideal 'you'...and the thing with ww2 a-2s seems almost metaphysical, and rightly so...thus it would be interesting to see if people have designed their personal physical look around these jackets, and the concomitant ww2 military look

for me, i'm relageted to the post ww2 a-2s and their more 'v' look because i've tried so hard to pack on a little muscle as to not continually be called a pencilneck...however, getting back to the original topic, i still have not achieved the upper body to fill out an 80s-90s cooper's neck opening...though the spiewak fits (neckwise) fine...

obsessingly,
johnnyjohnny