A-2 patch dilemma (first world problem)

[Big J]

Guys, I got this Aero heavy horse russet A-2 with a WW2 style leather name tag (my name), and a 352nd FG patch below it.

I got an Aero heavy horse Seal A-2 just the same, so....

I want to repatch the russet jacket. I bought a very large Buzz Ricksons 335th FIS from Charles at History Preservation. It's great!

But it won't quite cover stitch holes of previous patch.

But wouldn't genuine Korea re-issued jackets have stitch holes of previous wearers patches?

 

[Justhandguns]

I've seen people placing a bigger layer of leather underneath the patch to act as the base. If it is a vintage real deal, I don't mind the holes.... but for cosmetic reasons, and probably practical reason (when it rains....), I would cover up the stitch holes.

 

[Sloan1874]

Also, perforation upon perforation is never a great idea for jacket integrity...

 

[Big J]

You guys are both getting why this is causing me grief.
I thought about leather patch backing or edging, but that wasn't done during the Korean War: I can't find one photo to back it up.
Also, unlike the thick wool WWII patches, this patch is silk embroidered on silk (I believe). Very era specific Japan made repro patch- its great quality.
I have a pair of ATF USMC frog skin camp pants I bought to cut off into shorts (but not trucker shorts!) and thought I could use the extra fabric to make a backing for the patch big enough to cover any stitch holes from the WWII patch...

And then I just thought, 'Y'know J, Robbie Risner wouldn't have fretted over this kind of cr8p. I should just live with the holes.'

I'm a weak pathetic excuse for a man!

 

[Cocker]

I'm a weak pathetic excuse for a man!

Aren't we all when it comes down to our beloved leathers?

 

[Big J]

@Cocker,

Y'know I sure wish I hadn't written that last sentence now. If Stu from LW reads that, he'll never sell me another jacket as long as he lives!

 

[GregGale]

I would not change the patch. First, I'm partial towards the 352nd as I've read many books about them. Second, I don't think it does any good to the jacket.

Here's a different solution: Why don't you leave the A-2s as they are, and purchase a nylon jacket from the Korean war era? A B-15 or an L-2B? Having a patch without a jacket is always a good excuse

PS: I know that in WWII it wasn't done this way, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but has anyone considered sewing velcro on the jacket so patches can be swapped easily? Is it a big no-no? To be honest I wouldn't do it on my A-2, but I do have an MA-1 with a sage green velcro on the chest so I can put on whichever patch I feel like in the morning. Just thinking loud.

 

[Cocker]

I think @Big J already has enough nylon fetichism like that... (And now, that'll settle your case with Stu for good ).

As for the velcro, I wouldn't mind on a modern A-2 (you know, the baggy ones with hand warmers pockets), but on a historical contract... My brain is bleeding for only thinking about it.

 

[GregGale]

I understand your feeling...no other choice than to buy a B-15 or an -2B

 

[Big J]

Hi guys!
Thanks for the suggestions. I would like some blue nylon one day, and I like the look of Eastman's Endzone twill B-15, BUT...

Even if I bought any of those, I'd still have this great A-2 that I'm not wearing because of the patch.

To see what I'm thinking, have a look at Charles page;

http://www.historypreservation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/335th_patch_mont.jpg


If you scroll down you'll see some guys wearing A-2s the exact color as mine with this awesome patch.

 

[Cocker]

Truth be told, if I were you, I think I'd go for it, remove the older one and sew this one on top!

But I can understand your dilemma, it's typically those kind of little things I can ponder for days. But if you don't wear a perfectly good jacket only because of the patch, take the jump!

On the other hand, I don't see a russet jacket on the pics. As far as I can remember, most, if not all, the A-2 worn in Korean would have gone through a depot and been re-dyed at one time or another, so they would have been seal brown.

 

[Big J]

@Cocker, yes, exactly! This jacket has sat on the clothes rail for over a year, just because of the patch. It's a waste of a great jacket.

Cocker, if you open the link above and scroll down to the two smaller photos side-by-side, and look at the photo on the left. The second guy standing from the left is wearing an A-2. It's exactly the same color as the jackets mid-brown knits. To me, that isn't Seal brown, it's russet. On the far right of the same photo, you can see a guy in a G-1. That jacket looks black, but it is Seal brown. I think it's an effect of colors on the old film. All the Seal brown G-1s in those photos look black. The fact that the two A-2s are visibly brown makes me think they are russet rather than Seal. But, hey, there's no way to prove anything.

In fact, Charles' photos are awesome! Look at all those different jackets! Even green nylon! I'm loving the G-1s there too! There are so many! Are those guys all temporary duty from USN/USMC (like John Glenn) so they can get some MiGs? Or did the pentagon issue surplus navy flight jackets to USAF pilots in Korea due to shortages? Amazing historical record.

And while I'm typing, I talked about Robbie Risner above, but he flew with the 336th in Korea, not 335th. 335th was James Salter of The Hunters fame. My bad.

I think I'll get the patch put on, live with the holes, and treat the jacket as a beater. It'll last for ever, develop a load of character, and look great 5 years down the line.

 

[Deacon211]

Hey J,

How much of the previous hole outline is uncovered and how big are the holes?

I had some stitch holes in a G-1 and, after much online searching found some leather glue that seemed to work. I rubbed the glue into the holes and lightly wiped the excess with a cloth. When dry, the larger holes were at least stabilized and the smaller holes pretty much disappeared. If you had a bit of the dye, you could touch up any color difference, though I didn't need to.

Beyond that, flight gear was (and is) pretty functionally treated. Many of my patches were sewn on with thick green Nomex thread as that was all the PR had in the paraloft, appearance be damned.

You put that patch on a little backing leather, rough up the jacket a little and I think you could easily pass it off as a "field job".

Hell, you don't want to see what some of the less talented PRs did to some of my stuff!

D


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[Big J]

Yeah, the leather edging idea was my first thought, and it looks good on European theater A-2s. I've got a nice Seal A-2 patched that way. But it's just inaccurate on a Korean War era repro jacket, so I can't bring myself to do it.

Deacon, the 352nd patch is the standard WWII era round style, with a lightning bolt through it that just protrudes a little each side, and that's what's giving me the stitch holes I can't cover even with this much bigger patch. What's the name of the glue you tried, and how easy was it to apply?

 

[Stand By]

Personally, if you have that patch and love it, I'd send it to Aero and have them make a border for it.
I bought my old ELC RW B-3 back in the mid 2000's and it was only my second purchase from ELC (having discovered the joys of TFL/all these companies etc) and I was all gee'd up and had a couple of the ELC (repro) bullion patches (USAAF and 8th AF) put on it. They wore well, but I found that I didn't care for them as much as I imagined. For a good while, with hindsight, I felt I should have left them off as one so seldom sees a B-3 with any sleeve insignia.
Later on I wanted the patches replaced, but, like you Big J, ran across the dilemma of finding (nicer) patches to cover the previously sewn holes were the issue. I ended up finding some wonderful vintage ETO (English made) silk/cotton/wool patches that were simply fantastic in terms of design and colour and material and I really liked - but shoot, they were the standard size, thus still leaving me with the unsightly stitch marks.
So I ended up sending the jacket to AL for a repair to the collar and, as they had the jacket anyway, they added custom leather borders in russet HH and it looked amazing - they did a super-neat job (as well as that amazing repair to the collar that tore through that time) and the patches look superb. Sure, it wasn't cheap with the air mail back and forth, but I considered it money very well spent - as that jacket was "the king" of the ELC line back then and an investment (and 12 years later it's still putting in sterling service) - so it'd spoil it to go any other way, I felt, and I wasn't about to do that. And I still love the look of those patches today. I prefer the jacket with them, in fact. You can see the patches on the thread I made at that time:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/a-brilliant-repair-by-alexander-leathers.73104/#post-1661751
So no, it's not strictly authentic - as I haven't seen ETO patches made like that on originals, and no, if an airman asked his QM for such a thing, he'd be sent to the mess and told to buy a Babycham and to try pondering the perils of flak or imagine burning to death instead.
But as I always say, with jackets - and insignia/patches - there are ALWAYS anomalies, so there is always some leeway with such things. So it's MY jacket and it's just done the way I'd have wanted it back then if I could. So I did. And I really like it as there isn't another out there quite like mine in that small detail.
So I recommend you can do the same with a clear conscience - so I'd say give Aero a ping. Spend the money to make the jacket neat and you'll like it - and wear it.
Best of luck in whatever you decide.

 

[Cocker]

@Big J : I think STBY has it right, here. If your only problem is the holes of the bolt, either try filling 'em with glue or simply leave them as is. As some have stated, I get the feeling that most A-2 seen in Korea were worn by guys who flew during WW2 and had them issued since then. So, most probably, if the guy had it patched during WW2, he would have removed his patch and changed them to his new squadron ones. I don't think the holes would be an issue, except if you're really hard on the jacket.

I must admit I'd love to see your jacket once all patched up for Korea! This will be a great change over the many, many WW2 themed repro A-2.

 

[Cocker]

A couple more pictures for you!

https://jetpilotoverseas.wordpress.com/category/a-2/

 

[Deacon211]

Sorry Big J, been flying the last few days.

I think this is what I used.

https://www.amazon.com/Tandy-Leathe...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BMS2DHDD4S3F7B8EEZN3

But it looks like there are several alternatives. It looks (probably is) like Elmers Glue, if you are familiar. Standard white all purpose glue if you're not.

I just rubbed it into the holes with my finger and wiped off the excess with a damp cloth. It dries fairly clear depending on the size of the holes. Leather dye if you thing she needs it.

Might want to try on an inconspicuous spot as a test first.


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[Stand By]

A couple more pictures for you!



https://jetpilotoverseas.wordpress.com/category/a-2/

Great vintages photos and I especially loved the last one, Cocker. It's a great one of a sage B-15D and I got an email from Charles at HPA this morning saying that my Buzz Rickson of the same is in the mail! Made me even more excited to see that photo just now as I sit here on the train home. Thanks!!

 

[Cocker]

Stand By, I'm really looking forward to your review of this lovely jacket!