A-2 jacket patch identification

[Flieger]

I've been trying to find out what the patches on these two gentlemens jackets symbolize but I drew a blank. Hope I'm not too wrong thinking some of the experts here might be able to help?

I think this photo (showing Colonel Tinker and Captain Walker next to Tinker's B-10) was taken at Hamilton fld. early-mid 1930's.

If someone would know the colors on that patch I'd be extatic.

Flieger

 

[cheaterome]

7th Bomb group-- Pretty Rad patch!!! Inconspicuous even.


"Mors Ab Alto"------- "Death From Above"


Jerome

 

[cheaterome]

That is a very early patch and photo . Ford tri-motor in the background?

The guys jacket on the right.... his left pocket flap shows a button through design on the flap Air Associates Or Security Aviation Togs probably the earliest known maker of A-2-s.

Jerome

 

[Fletch]

That's a Martin B-10, one of the most beautiful things Man ever built to drop bombs.

(Ford Trimotor lol...we DID have an organized Air Corps with real bombing planes in the 30s, not like Germany with their "Flying Clubs" and airliners with bomb bay fittings.)

The Colonel cut a bit of a John Carradine figure. Yes, officers used to get to wear cuffed trous (this was a transition period out of breech & boot uniforms), but sideburns?!!

The 7th BG's leather patch:

Based at March Field until 1934, when they moved to Hamilton. (That dates the pic neatly, if you can confirm Hamilton.)
They refitted with B-18s in 1937. During the big'un they fought in the CBI.

The 7BG included the squadron with probably the flat-out coolest crest, the 9th BS. No ducks, no Goofy dogs, not even a bomb...just searchlights in a night sky. How moderne.

Sign me up for a Security Togs repro A-2! I may even pay in yen if I have to!

 

[cheaterome]

Sounds good to me.

I just picked up an older Aero publications book book on the p-26 peashooter and they show that Martin B-10 in the background of a lot of the photos.

I really love that blue and yellow color scheme.

Sideburns are cool.


Jerome

 

[Fletch]

But very unmilitary. Then again, we were a pretty unmilitary country in the 30s. Even the military was somewhat that way.

 

[cheaterome]

Buzz made a Security Aviation togs A-2 back in 2000 ...not very accurate .

Glossy hide, exposed zip ,no pinlock zipper, regular flap pockets


Jerome

 

[Fletch]

Maj. Gen. Clarence Tinker, BTW, was both the first Native American general since the war of 1812 (he was 1/8 Osage) and the first US general killed in WW2 (on a B-24 mission over Wake Island in 1942). Tinker AFB in Oklahoma is named for him.

 

[Flieger]

You guys rock!!! :eusa_clap

Great information with color pictures and all. Thanks a million!

Reason I ask is not to put the patch on a jacket (even if that would look great), but I in the process of building a model kit of Walkers Curtiss P-36A - "Gold Bug" in 32nd scale and I was planning to put a figure next to the plane showing Walker himself. The "Gold Bug" was used briefly by Walker when he was commanding the 18th PG at Wheeler Field 1940.

I have not found any other photo of Walker in an A-2 then the one above so I'm going to use some artistic licence and let him wear the same jacket and patch as he did in the 30's.

Cheers!
Flieger

 

[greyhound68]

What I find interesting is the length of Col Tinker's cuffs on his A2. Must be at least 3 inches. Look just like the ones on my Buzz A2. And I thought they were too long.

 

[Fletch]

What I find interesting is the length of Col Tinker's cuffs on his A2. Must be at least 3 inches. Look just like the ones on my Buzz A2. And I thought they were too long.

I assume Tinker is wearing a Werber 1729, as Werber was about the only other A-2 maker at the time. It had fairly long cuffs, as well as very narrow shoulders and the bottom zipper stud, visible in the shot.
Compare Eastman's picture page on the 1729 here.

 

[greyhound68]

I assume Tinker is wearing a Werber 1729, as Werber was about the only other A-2 maker at the time. It had fairly long cuffs, as well as very narrow shoulders and the bottom zipper stud, visible in the shot.
Compare Eastman's picture page on the 1729 here.

Yes I thought it was a Werber too. Interesting on the ELC web site that it does have rather long cuffs. So I guess my A2 isn't too inaccurate for having them.

 

[Fletch]

Further research

...reveals that Brig. Gen. Kenneth Walker was killed in a B-17 raid over Rabaul in January, 1943, for which he posthumously was awarded the Medal of Honor. While with the 7th BG at Hamilton, Major (no longer Capt.) Walker was very important in developing strategic bombing philosophy.

With no remains ever recovered, Walker was not given a grave marker till 2000.

 

[silhouette53]

Great photo ! The main thing that I notice from it is that just as in most of the other old photos from the WW2 period which I've seen, the fit of the A2s is far from the ideal which we all seem to be striving for !! It really must have been a case of ( as Aero Leathers 'real deal' description says ) the quatermaster looking at the recruit and visually assessing his size and throwing a jacket at him !
As Aero also state "remember during WWII Type A2's were not the flawless, shiny unblemished, A2's like the supposedly Stitch for stitch replicas currently on the market".

Maybe our mental image of the 'perfect A2' was a pretty rare sight in those days ? Then again, I guess that for the guys who were getting into the planes and putting their lives on the line every day, the question of whether or not their jacket was a 'just so' fit was really not a high priority issue !!!

 

[Fletch]

With a skeleton air service, placing jacket orders in the hundreds (rather than tens of thousands) at that time, one doubts anyone got his A-2 "thrown" at him - certainly not mid-grade officers anyway. This might just have been how the slenderer cut coat of the day behaved after a few years of daily flying use.

 

[deanglen]

Why would they have only group patches, not squadron patches as well. Staff officers?




dean

 

[SIGGY]

"Only Group Patch'

Hey Deanglen, If I recall correctly the reason for only wearing a "group" patch on the jacket in that time period was that the "Group" was the larger of the "Command" area they were assigned to and anyone in the group from a private to a General would wear just the Group's emblem, also note that generally was the only emblem you would see carried on the aircraft at that time.

 

[Danny L]

Why would they have only group patches, not squadron patches as well. Staff officers?




dean

Actually, the personnel you see wearing Group patches are ones assigned to the Group and not a specific Squadron. Pilots assigned at the Group level are of course the Group C.O. and a few others in positions such as Stand/Eval pilots. This pretty much the same practice as today's Wing structure.

 

[deanglen]

Thanks for the answers guys! And here's a collection of 7th BG patches, blue shield, yellow bar, black maltese crosses.

dean

 

[Edward]

Buzz made a Security Aviation togs A-2 back in 2000 ...not very accurate .

Glossy hide, exposed zip ,no pinlock zipper, regular flap pockets

Given how open to customisation Aero are in respect of their civilian jackets, I should imagine they'd be reasonably flexible with the A2s also, no? It seems to me that the details of the Security Aviation A2s that some folks are keen on aren't so out of step with some of Aero's current offerings, that they would be able to facilitate a very respectable recreation.

Maybe our mental image of the 'perfect A2' was a pretty rare sight in those days ? Then again, I guess that for the guys who were getting into the planes and putting their lives on the line every day, the question of whether or not their jacket was a 'just so' fit was really not a high priority issue !!!

True.... I think we also have to remember that most of us intersted in A2s nowadays are older and quite typically stouter than th average guy who was issued one as uniform.... Scaling up a pattern to a larger size doesn't always result in garment that looks 'the same only bigger'.