A-2 and CCW - is it possible?

[Fiver64]

I don't know that you could get a gun (at least not for a long time) without being a citizen. Maybe depends on the State.
bk

It's a federal thing......... which I am not aware of too many (any actually)states overriding. I teach CCW in MN. It's not hard to get a CCW permit (in almost every state that offers them) as a LEGAL alien with all the correct work papers. Had a buddy who was British and a diamond dealer. Got a permit with little difficulty.

To address Edward's assumption.............. I spent about a month in the UK and found that there are MANY handguns around.....most illegally of course. These ranged from vet bring-backs (Grandpa's old luger or some antique Webley, etc) to new stuff. Don't kid yourself. Guns are there, but underground.

The most common question asked of me, was "do all Americans carry guns?" While folks aren't getting whacked by so many guns in England, they make up for it with blunt or sharp objects. You also have to keep in mind that England is roughly the size of ONE of our medium-sized states, so statistics obviously look less in the violent crime department.

In the end, whether you actually carry or not isn't the issue. Having the right, is. Perhaps to best accomodate our UK membership, the original question should be revised to, "Can you conceal a cricket-bat in an A-2?"

 

[Creeping Past]

"Can you conceal a cricket-bat in an A-2?" [/I]

Or are you just pleased to see me? etc.

 

[South]

Grinder - The SA Professional Bureau model will tear up the lining in your A-2. It has 20 LPI checkering. It can be carried concealed in an IWB holster, but the A-2 may not be long enough to cover the bulge. By the way, a Kimber is not in the same class as the SA Custom Shop Professional (Bureau model). The standard production SA "FBI" (TRP) gun is not the same thing as the Custom Shop model.

As others mentioned, for regular carry under an A-2, I would look at a more compact gun.

HD - nice looking HP, there.

 

[Edward]

An assumption that's as untested and unfounded as it is sweeping and general, Edward.

To be fair, it's based on experience rather than statistics.... I've just simply never met anyone here that had a positive desire to own a gun, for whatever purpose. Mix of indifference to outright hostility to the idea, really, is all I've seen. May be different out in the country where folks still hunt, I suppose.

 

[Stearmen]

Murder Inc.

The thing that worries me about these discussions is the appearence that we Yanks are complete cowards, who are terrified to go any where unarmed! I do have several fire arms, all old or replicas of old muzzle loaders! My newest non replica is a Colt 1911 made in 1914 US Army. I do not have a concealed license, nor do I sleep with a loaded pistol under my pillow! I live in a large city with murders, yet I am not that scared. Lets face it, most Americans are murdered by a friend or loved one, so be nice to the ones you love! I just don't want the rest of the world getting the wrong idea about us, it really is a nice peaceful country to live to old age in!

 

[Creeping Past]

The thing that worries me about these discussions is the appearence that we Yanks are complete cowards, who are terrified to go any where unarmed

Not at all. Although some people in the UK may hold the view that gun ownership is strange thing to want to preserve, let alone talk about, many regard the exercising of rights in the pursuit of reminding the government who's boss as a good, healthy thing.

fftopic:

Rights vanish if not looked after. People in the UK no longer have the absolute right to remain silent if arrested; in fact, silence in such circumstances may be used against them.

 

[Boodles]

A-2 Clone and CCW

My personal experience with using my old Avirex A-2 while carrying anything like a small Glock, a Colt OM or even a J frame S&W, using an IWB holster, is that it's just not a great jacket choice. If, like myself, you are an aging, sort of porky size 44 and 36[+] through the middle, you may find that there is just nowhere to hide the gun. The slick fit of the A-2 telegraphs the bulge of the gun. While the leather is rigid enough so it doesn't 'print' the grip, it still shows that something (what else) is there. Adding to your woe is that when unzipped, the knits on the waist pull the jacket back and more open than you'll find acceptable. If the A-2 is zipped you may find that getting the jacket out of the way in order to draw the gun is next to impossible. Perhaps if you are still built like you are 20 years old it may be that none of this applies to you.
fftopic:
Mr. Creeping Past has already explained, better than I possibly could have (Illuminating, having been said by someone from the UK!), why many Americans feel the way they do about owning and carrying guns. Most people here don't now and never have, thought that the idea of having guns is the dominion of only the state (For sure, the Northeast corner of the USA, save for New Hampshire, feels less strongly in favor of individual ownership). Still, even with the support of recent verdicts (Heller vs DC) of the US Supreme Court, "eternal vigilance" is required of the common man to preserve gun ownership rights.

 

[Naphtali]

For a start this does not yet affect me - I live in Ireland and the only way to get CCW is to join the Police Force and get assigned to armed duty.

Secondly this is not outerwear but I don't know where else to post it.

That said, there is the possibility that we might emigrate. Although Canada is on the cards the US is also a possibility.

I've also had a long standing interest in side arms and if I lived in a country that allowed ownership I would probably invest in the best 1911 variant I could afford - probably a Kimber or the Springfield Bureau model.
I also fully understand the premise "beware the man who owns only one gun".

So, if I'm wearing an A-2 where and how do I wear a 1911?

maybe I should get an Indy jacket for such occasions...

When considering USA, pay attention to states' "carry" laws. Western (not west coast) and southern states tend to be relaxed. The more densely populated states tend toward restrictions with which you are familiar - perhaps more unpleasant.

Were I wearing a flight jacket of any sort while wearing a side arm on holster belt, I would have a two-way zipper installed to allow me to relax jacket from holster. Were a non-"period" jacket being ordered, I would consider having naked slits at each side. This would make sitting in the jacket more comfortable while creating access for holstered firearm.

When woods wandering in winter, while wearing my parka, I use a De Santis swivel shoulder holster. Although these have been discontinued for perhaps a decade, they allow comfortable carry and access to the BIG BOOMERS I carry. I can neither frighten nor outrun grizzly bears. And I've met one in Lolo, and saw one two houses down and across the street from my home. As the man said: There's no substitute for cubic inches.

Hope this helps.

Here is a thumbnail of the swivel holster.

 

[PADDY]

Gentlemen.

Gentlemen. This intervention probably comes as no surprise as the conversation 'borders,' if not trangresses over into a political arena of laws and rights to bear firearms.

Also IMPORTANTLY, it really veers away from the original thread premise.

I'm making an Executive Decision on this one chaps by giving you the benefit of the doubt and sliding it across into the general topics' room of the Observation Bar.

However, be not surprised if the Admin Team there close this one. [huh] But I'm not convinced that Outerwear was the correct room in the first place.

 

[Naphtali]

Perhaps it belongs in THE OBSERVATION BAR? And his query pertains to jackets rather than legalities - that is, his question can receive replies in a vacuum. But I'm just a kid; what do I know?

 

[anon`]

My personal experience with using my old Avirex A-2 while carrying anything like a small Glock, a Colt OM or even a J frame S&W, using an IWB holster, is that it's just not a great jacket choice. If, like myself, you are an aging, sort of porky size 44 and 36[+] through the middle, you may find that there is just nowhere to hide the gun. The slick fit of the A-2 telegraphs the bulge of the gun. While the leather is rigid enough so it doesn't 'print' the grip, it still shows that something (what else) is there. Adding to your woe is that when unzipped, the knits on the waist pull the jacket back and more open than you'll find acceptable. If the A-2 is zipped you may find that getting the jacket out of the way in order to draw the gun is next to impossible. Perhaps if you are still built like you are 20 years old it may be that none of this applies to you.

It still does, a fact which I can personally attest to. Short jackets (like my personal favourite, the Ike), those with elastic bottoms (like the A-2) or drawstrings (like the M43) are all poor choices for waist-level carrying in anything other than, perhaps, appendix, at least to varying degrees. It can be done effectively, but there are tradeoffs with each that does limit how can wear the jacket in question.

Ike jackets and their ilk work just fine if you're wearing a tuckable holster, but if the gun is outside of your shirt then they pull up entirely too high. They also tend to print when buttoned if they're nice and svelte
The problems with A-2 jackets and their like have been noted: the elastic tends to pull the jacket open, and is a huge liability if you need to draw while the coat is closed.
Drawstrings can be removed, and those jackets are usually bulky and long enough to not be an issue if you do so, but for purposes of the Lounge... who wants to disembowel a real M43?

I would think that a J-frame would fit well into the pocket of an A-2, no? They're not that heavy, after all, especially the alloy models.

 

[Boodles]

Begging your pardon sir. Please excuse the political overtones.

Gentlemen. This intervention probably comes as no surprise as the conversation 'borders,' if not trangresses over into a political arena of laws and rights to bear firearms.

Also IMPORTANTLY, it really veers away from the original thread premise.

I'm making an Executive Decision on this one chaps by giving you the benefit of the doubt and sliding it across into the general topics' room of the Observation Bar.

However, be not surprised if the Admin Team there close this one. [huh] But I'm not convinced that Outerwear was the correct room in the first place.

Mr. Paddy, after you justifiably moved this thread I noticed an existing and well used thread in the General Attire & Accouterments section and titled Concealed (Weapon) Fashion (Not that I am suggesting moving this thread again). Over time a lot has been said about what clothing works or does not work.

As an aside, it unfortunately does often seem difficut to discuss guns, especially handguns, without the conversation drifting a little or a lot into politics. I am sorry if I contributed to that drift, it was not my intent.

 

[Flyboy]

To Answer the Original Question...

I carry a full-size, all-steel 1911 pattern (Dan Wesson, in my case) as a matter of routine. The key is in selecting a good holster. 1911 Man has already suggested Galco; I'd like to add Milt Sparks to the list; the Versa Max 2 is very well-regarded, and I can say from personal experience that it is very well-made and makes it easy to conceal Ol' Slabsides, even in just a T-shirt and jeans (quelle horreur!). You might also check out Mitch Rosen, Rafter S Gunleather, or any of a dozen other quality holster makers, but the keyword there is "quality." Expect to drop a hundred and a half on a good inside-the-waistband holster, but once you get used to it, you'll find that you forget you're even wearing a sidearm--until you're in a situation that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.

It's all about the holster.

 

[Peacoat]

I would think that a J-frame would fit well into the pocket of an A-2, no? They're not that heavy, after all, especially the alloy models.

The Air Lite Titanium weighs in at 12 oz. (empty). Put it in a pocket and one forgets it is there, even fully loaded.

 

[Colonel]

A-2 and CCW is the topic, so here are two photos of my own CCW guns on my A-2 jacket:

The first is by far my favorite. It is my "Personal Sidearm" and is carried at all times. As for carry purposes though, the A-2 really has nothing to do with it since I carry it in an inside-the-pants pouch holster. I have carried it this way for quite a few years and it is the most comfortable and most concealable way I have found (and I've got a box full of holsters to show for it). This is a S&W 640 with Hogue grips.

Far less commonly carried is this Kimber CDP (Custom Defense Package). While I really like the 1911, you just can't beat a J-frame revolver for power, reliability, comfort, and ease-of-carry.

These photos are from The Personal Sidearm discussion thread at the Confederate Colonel forum.

I carry on a daily basis, yet I am one of the least likely people to ever have an occasion to use it for its intended purpose. It is carried for the same reason that it used to be expected that a gentleman carried a sword. It was not that sword-play was all that common; rather, it was there as a reminder that it is the duty of a gentleman to be always ready to defend himself and others against those who do not live by the rules of a civilized society. An armed society is a polite society.

 

[Edward]

What did the USAAF boys do when wearing their A2s in action? Presumably at least the officers had access to a side arm in case of a crash landing behind enemy lines? But then I suppose they didn't have to concern themselves with concealed carry, being military?

 

[JimWagner]

They would have used a shoulder holster such as:

But concealment wasn't the issue. It was carrying the .45 in a manner that didn't interfere with comfort and keeping the pistol from getting in the way of piloting or getting tangled up in harnesses and straps.

 

[trapperjohnme]

i consistantly carry a 1911 inside the waist band (IWB). My experience is that if you have a good holster AND a good belt then it is nto uncomfortable in the least and you can easily conceal it.

 

[Talbot]

The Air Lite Titanium weighs in at 12 oz. (empty). Put it in a pocket and one forgets it is there, even fully loaded.

How are they for comfort when firing? I have a collector friend with a titanium (?) 357 Magnum. He says it will nearly break your wrist when firing.

 

[Diamondback]

Go a size or two larger on your A-2--I once did a trial with mine (ordered big for this very reason), and a pair of airsoft 1911s in shoulder-holster (okay, I used surgical tape to hold them in holster-position for the test), and it worked pretty well even with my short 'n' portly build. Bear in mind, though, that I also had them oriented much like the Depp rig in Public Enemies, muzzle down and grip forward, so they were usually hidden by my arms. EDIT: We are talkin' 5" Government Models in the case of my test, also.

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