9mm or 45cal

[jkingrph]

Freightpilot, you make a lot of excellent and valid points and I find I agree with all.

Down here in E Texas, we have to carry concealed, no open carry allowed. The cooler months when I can wear a jacket or vest, I usually carry one of the compact 45's, a Kimber ultra carry or Para Ordance PDA.

Hot months, I stick a double action only (enclosed hammer) 5 shot S&W scandium lite 38 special in a pocket holster in front pants pocket.

I do have one of the little North American 22 magnums that was Dad's, but it's just too tiny and hard to hold, cock, and fire. For really easy concealing I go to a little Walther TPH, 22 LR semi auto, a flat easily concealable gun.

Any gun in hand is better than one not readily available.

 

[Renault]

It's called Tacti-Cool! I know I can't fire my pistol or rifle without my Blackhawk gear and all my awesome accessories!

I'm waiting for someone to come out with a picatinny adaptor for a toilet paper roll......

Hmmmmmm,,,,,, Wait?????? I think I just found a way to finance a real safari ...

I'll get back to ya!

Renault

 

[PistolPete1969]

.45 all the way!!!!! A 9mm may expand, but the .45 doesn't shrink!


Pete

 

[budrichard]

Either 9mm or 45 ACP will be sufficient with hollowpoints, FMJ, then expect the 45 ACP to be a better stopper but that is not the real comparison that is valid.
The real comparison is whether you can hit your target consistently in a stress situation with what ever firearm and caliber you choose. I have Colt Gold Cup, Officer's, S&W 745 IPSC Target in 45 ACP. In a stress situation, rapid fire, aiming, after two or three shots the 45 ACP guns get away from me. I have a 38 Super Combat Commander Series 70 which I can shoot very well. I'm having a Milt Sparks rig made for it. I have had a pair of SIG P229's 40 S&W for over 15 years carrying concealed. They handle and shoot very nicely for me and I can hit a target consistently under stress.
So for me carrying a 45 ACP of any kind is not something I would do.
I can handle recoil in handguns and hunt deer with a S&W M29-2 8&3/8", having taken two deer with that gun at 43 and 5yds in single action mode but I wouldn't use that for concealed carry because shooting double action will/may decrease hit probability.
My wife just acquired a Glock GEN4 G19 and it shoots like a dream for me and I certainly would not feel at a disadvantage carrying the M19 with HP's.
I would advise that you determine under stress conditions with a NRA Certified Instructor whether you can shoot your chosen Carry gun and ammo and hit the target and multiple threat targets.-Dick

 

[Buggnkat]

Guns are like cars. Everyone has their personal likes or dislikes based on their experiences, experiences of friends or stories told around the range table. I caution people about listening to "military" or "police" officers when making decisions about firearms for personal protection. Reason being is what and how they carry is dictated by training the average Joe or Jane will never come close to in real life. Not to mention carrying for them is COMPLETELY different than how you will carry your weapon for personal defense.

Some basic things to consider when purchasing your weapon:

1) Does it fit your hand? This is VERY important if it is a Semi. As the weapon will likely jam on you making it worthless for self protection. Or converse if you can not get your finger quickly and smoothly into the trigger guard it does nothing for you.
2) Can you carry it concealed? If you are a skinny person, hiding a 1911 will be tough. While for a guy like me, I can tuck it just about anywhere and you would never know I had the weapon on me.
3) THE most important part of the whole equation, can you hit a target under diress.

As has been stated, it doesnt matter the caliber, a miss is a miss and a chance for the person endagnering you to get to you and harm you and your family and perpetrate that harm. So what ever firearm you choose, go to the range regularly. Practice off handed draws, awckward shooting positions, self defense classes and quick magazine changes.

Be profiecent with you weapon, know your weapon as well as its capabilities and limitations and know how to properly defend yourself.

 

[amador]

The Drill for me:
Semi auto unloaded without magazine. Two magazines with 5 rounds each. Gun and magazines on the bench. Load,rack and shoot 3 rds at target as quickly as possible, pause, then 2 rds. Remove magazine and reload another 5 round magazine and repeat. Unload and ck gun and target. Do this with strong/weak hand single/ double grip.
Gives me a feel for my best delivery and some practice.

 

[Eric P]

I'm waiting for someone to come out with a picatinny adaptor for a toilet paper roll......

Hmmmmmm,,,,,, Wait?????? I think I just found a way to finance a real safari ...

I'll get back to ya!

Renault

Here ya go, one is already in production. It attaches to the forearm.

 

[Buggnkat]

Now thats funny! Useful yet not ostentatious......

 

[Renault]

Here ya go, one is already in production. It attaches to the forearm.

Cursids! Foiled again![huh]

BTW, was cleaning a nice old 1897 Win. pump gun we got in today and found a 1925 and 1929 dated Kansas hunting licenses in the buttstock bolt hole! I'll frame em out!

R

 

[jkingrph]

Guns are like cars. Everyone has their personal likes or dislikes based on their experiences, experiences of friends or stories told around the range table. I caution people about listening to "military" or "police" officers when making decisions about firearms for personal protection. Reason being is what and how they carry is dictated by training the average Joe or Jane will never come close to in real life. Not to mention carrying for them is COMPLETELY different than how you will carry your weapon for personal defense.

Some basic things to consider when purchasing your weapon:

1) Does it fit your hand? This is VERY important if it is a Semi. As the weapon will likely jam on you making it worthless for self protection. Or converse if you can not get your finger quickly and smoothly into the trigger guard it does nothing for you.
2) Can you carry it concealed? If you are a skinny person, hiding a 1911 will be tough. While for a guy like me, I can tuck it just about anywhere and you would never know I had the weapon on me.
3) THE most important part of the whole equation, can you hit a target under diress.

As has been stated, it doesnt matter the caliber, a miss is a miss and a chance for the person endagnering you to get to you and harm you and your family and perpetrate that harm. So what ever firearm you choose, go to the range regularly. Practice off handed draws, awckward shooting positions, self defense classes and quick magazine changes.

Be profiecent with you weapon, know your weapon as well as its capabilities and limitations and know how to properly defend yourself.

Good advice. A few years back when I was in the reserve I took my 45 to the range at Barksdale with a few other officers. We were swapping and trying different guns and one of our male nurses who had been a policeman for a number of year tried it and could not shoot it. He was proficient with a revolver but could not shoot the semi auto.

Turned out he was limp wristing and when he fired it it the barrel would not recoil enough to completely cycle and eject the empty case. No one else had this problem.

 

[Freightpilot]

One thing for the "carry in a jacket pocket" crowd to consider. Go buy a cheap jacket from a thrift store. Wear it out to the range. Drop your favorite semiauto carry gun in the pocket. with the gun still in the pocket, (and utilizing every safety precaution know to man) fire 3 rounds at your target. Drop your favorite shrouded hammer revolver in the other pocket, repeat. You will draw your own conclusions. Same applies to womens purses. Auto may not always equal better.

 

[jkingrph]

One thing for the "carry in a jacket pocket" crowd to consider. Go buy a cheap jacket from a thrift store. Wear it out to the range. Drop your favorite semiauto carry gun in the pocket. with the gun still in the pocket, (and utilizing every safety precaution know to man) fire 3 rounds at your target. Drop your favorite shrouded hammer revolver in the other pocket, repeat. You will draw your own conclusions. Same applies to womens purses. Auto may not always equal better.

Man, I do not want to try and carry my ultra compact 45's in a jacket pocket. The Para Ordanance, double action only, has a totally smooth hammer, no hammer spur that can be manually cocked, but the 1911 frame is just too squarish for pocket carry. It's fine for an inside the waistband carry, but for pocket carry I like my S&W Scandium lite double action only, totally enclosed hammer. It's small, smoothly contured, and so light it does not pull the pocket down.

 

[Kirk H.]

One thing for the "carry in a jacket pocket" crowd to consider. Go buy a cheap jacket from a thrift store. Wear it out to the range. Drop your favorite semiauto carry gun in the pocket. with the gun still in the pocket, (and utilizing every safety precaution know to man) fire 3 rounds at your target. Drop your favorite shrouded hammer revolver in the other pocket, repeat. You will draw your own conclusions. Same applies to womens purses. Auto may not always equal better.

You are right. With the revolver you can fire all the rounds if you had to, but with the semi, all you would get would be one shot before the action of the slide coming back would cause a stoppage by either getting tangled up in the material or the the empty casing being stove piped etc etc...

 

[Rathdown]

Firing a gun from inside a coat pocket (or a purse) was a regular feature of old gangster movies... but in the real world, don't try it! Even with a hammerless (or shrouded hammer) revolver the odds are that the gun will fail to function one out of three attempts if fired from a pocket, and if fired from a purse the failure rate climbs to four out of five attempts. A hammerless automatic will deliver 100% shot capability if fired in a pocket or purse, but off sets this with a 100% failure to fire a second shot capability due to a variety of mechanical issues, usually referred to as a "jam".

By all means carry a pistol in your pocket if you feel inclined to do so, but practice drawing the pistol from your pocket, rather than deluding yourself that it can be effectively and reliably fired from inside a coat pocket.

 

[Story]

Firing a gun from inside a coat pocket (or a purse) was a regular feature of old gangster movies... but in the real world, don't try it! Even with a hammerless (or shrouded hammer) revolver the odds are that the gun will fail to function one out of three attempts if fired from a pocket, and if fired from a purse the failure rate climbs to four out of five attempts. A hammerless automatic will deliver 100% shot capability if fired in a pocket or purse, but off sets this with a 100% failure to fire a second shot capability due to a variety of mechanical issues, usually referred to as a "jam".

By all means carry a pistol in your pocket if you feel inclined to do so, but practice drawing the pistol from your pocket, rather than deluding yourself that it can be effectively and reliably fired from inside a coat pocket.

Source of these statistics?

 

[jkingrph]

Firing a gun from inside a coat pocket (or a purse) was a regular feature of old gangster movies... but in the real world, don't try it! Even with a hammerless (or shrouded hammer) revolver the odds are that the gun will fail to function one out of three attempts if fired from a pocket, and if fired from a purse the failure rate climbs to four out of five attempts. A hammerless automatic will deliver 100% shot capability if fired in a pocket or purse, but off sets this with a 100% failure to fire a second shot capability due to a variety of mechanical issues, usually referred to as a "jam".
By all means carry a pistol in your pocket if you feel inclined to do so, but practice drawing the pistol from your pocket, rather than deluding yourself that it can be effectively and reliably fired from inside a coat pocket.

My DAO, double action only semi auto might or might not fire., depending on room available for the bobbed hammer to move. I doubt if the slide would cycle for a second shot.

The little S&W DAO revolver with a totally enclosed hammer, not shrouded but totally enclosed, would fire reliably for all 5 shots unless something caught and prevented the cylinder from rotating and that is not probable. I carry in an inside the pocket holster so the gun has to be drawn first making it an non issue for me.

 

[Rathdown]

Source of these statistics?

Since you asked...

When I was Associate Editor of GUNS & AMMO Magazine back in the 70s we did all sorts of odd ball stuff to generate editorial content. One of the features the magazine did was about "guns in the movies", and as a side bar we tried shooting from both a pocket and a purse.

Because the revolver had to be indexed with each pull of the trigger (the test gun was a S&W Centennial) the pocket lining regularly fouled the cylinder and caused the revolver to malfunction about every third time the trigger was pulled.

Using a Colt pocket auto it fired every time, but the close confines of the pocket impeded the operation of the slide which resulted in a 100% "jam factor", making a second "pocket shot" impossible.

The same results occurred when either the revolver or pocket auto was fired from inside a purse; the purse lining fouled the handgun (and actually caught fire on one occasion).

Not exactly tested to Underwriter's Laboratory standards, but hardly anecdotal evidence either; the results of the field test were enough to disprove the movie myth of firing a hand gun multiple times from a pocket or purse.

Hope that answers your question!

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

The only thing you can be sure of hitting when firing from your sport coat pocket is (wait for it)...


your sport coat pocket.

Later (Note, this is real good information, I'm an NRA Pistol Instructor)

 

[Buggnkat]

I dont know Mike, my luck something MUCH more dear to me :eusa_doh:

 

[Renault]

So mebbe this is why Leon Czolgosz placed a bandage over his revolvered hand when he went after Billy McKinley at the Pan-American Exposition way back in 1901.....

Just sayin'......

Renault