9mm or 45cal

[Buggnkat]

You know Bob, I never thought about that till you posted. I came from the 1911 series carriers. The M9 met a lot of resistance when fielded. Not to mention functionality issues as well as operational issues. Not many thought very highly of the M9 back then. Most of us dont think much of it now.

Given that pistol probably came into being and became the standard sidearm before or about the time that the current stock of Uncle Sugars Kids were born, it is one of the few if only pistols they know or knew. I can see how looking at our 1911s they might think "Wow, what a piece of metal!"

When I came into the service I remember hearing the E-6s and above complain about the M16 and wishing for the return of the M14! Makes sense, I never thought about it that way.

Thanks, now I feel old all of a sudden

 

[John in Covina]

The M9 Beretta in the early deliveries had those bad slides that fractured which was pretty scary. The word I had heardwas the women had a really hard time racking the slide of a 1911 and that was something the M9 was easier to perform for them. It is many years since the M9's inception, it has been the weapon of choice for many police departments and used around the world. The design dates back to a single stack version (Helwan I think is one.) Most seem to handle OK. Service weapons that have been worn out and are in need of replacing are simply that.

In the end the best weapon to have is the one in your hand when you need it as long as you're well practiced with it. The best gun in the world does you no good if it's unloaded and locked in a safe when the moment comes. (And It is not the smoke or the noise of those shots that counts, it's hits.)

 

[Bob_Fixico]

Buggnkat, I do apologize did not mean to make you to feel old. I, well... I am sorry man. Sometimes I think and my thoughts get out and this not a good thing.

John, you are correct sir, to paraphrase you, "the deadliest thing on the battlefield is the well aimed round" It does not matter what weapon you carry. hummmm that's not quite a paraphrase.

 

[Widebrim]

When I came into the service I remember hearing the E-6s and above complain about the M16 and wishing for the return of the M14! Makes sense, I never thought about it that way.

One Vietnam vet I served with shot expert, and was consequently allowed to choose his weapon of choice when in-country: the M14. I've heard old-timers talk about how you could drag the M14 through the mud and it would still fire, so I'm not sure that those senior NCOs you speak about were all that wrong!

 

[Rathdown]

The M9 Beretta in the early deliveries had those bad slides that fractured which was pretty scary.

Actually, only 14 slides failed-- three in field tests and 11 in the lab. Only three injuries resulted from slide separations. All three shooters suffered facial lacerations; one broke a tooth, and the other two required stitches. Determined to discover the cause of the failure, the Army tested three pistols and found that the slides failed on pistol one at 23,310 rounds, on pistol two at 30,083 rounds, and on pistol three at 30,545 rounds. Only one of the 14 failures occurred at less than 10,000 rounds. Careful examination of the 14 fractured slides revealed the cause of the failure to be low metal toughness. At this time (1986-1988) the frames of the M9 were manufactured in the USA, while the slides were manufactured by Beretta at their Italian factory. After April, 1988, all slides, as well as frames, were manufactured in the USA by Beretta at their US factory in Accokeek, Maryland. No further slide failures were reported during testing once the change over to the US manufactured slides had taken place, and the M9 entered service in 1990.

As far as I am aware, there have been no slide failures on the US-built M9/M9A service pistols issued to US troops. There have been issues with the magazines, and the military has been at pains to correct the problem, with the recent purchase of 2 million magazines hopefully solving the problem.

 

[John in Covina]

One Vietnam vet I served with shot expert, and was consequently allowed to choose his weapon of choice when in-country: the M14. I've heard old-timers talk about how you could drag the M14 through the mud and it would still fire, so I'm not sure that those senior NCOs you speak about were all that wrong!

I recall a story about a squad in Viet Nam that had to bring up a guy with an M14 to basically cut down an Ironwood tree in themiddle of a Helo landing area. The 223 would not cut the tree bu the 308 took it out.

Both M16 and M14 are a joy to shoot but past 200 meters the 30cal is the clear winner.

 

[Buggnkat]

Since I fired the M9 for the first time in 87 at Bragg, I never saw a slide blow apart. I did see the magnaflux testing of 4 of the 9 issued to our flight platoon and those showed stress fractures and were immediately pulled from service. Within 2 months the M9s were pulled by a Safety of Use memo and 1911s were issued till the problem was resolved by Barreta. Hence I am/was a bit apprehensive about that pistol. The 1911s we received to replace the M9s were fresh rebuilds and shot like a dream.

I have shot M1s, M14s and the M16 (a1, a2) and I do appreciate the M14. Her out of the box accuracy is awesome and you have a magazine which is easily replaced. The M16 I liked as it was easy on recoil, relatively accurate out to 150 meters and was fun to shoot. I remember trying to reach out and touch someone at over 250 meters and seeing the bad guy look around like "What the heck was that?". I shot expert on the range, but under combat conditions with the heart pumping adrenaline just a slight twitch would send a wake up call rather than a knock down shot to the bad guys. But thats me.

Bob, no worries my man! I dont feel old till I do the math, and then it is HOLY COW BELLS, its been THAT long ago?!?! I still feel like I did when I was a 19 year old PFC, unless it is early morning and the snap crackle pop I hear isnt my cereal.

 

[Bob_Fixico]

Buggnkat, I served 1980-2005 RA. I should still be a young man at 51 but when my two eldest sons enlisted right after high school in 1999. I got old in a twenty four hour period. When my third son enlisted after junior college in 2005 We passed each other as they wheeled me out as he was walking in. I am comfortible with it now more so than I was back in 1999. I am blessed my sons are still serving. I did get 5 grandsons out of getting old quick. They are more fun.

Yes the M9 had a character flaw in the Echo series and the Foxtrot series was the fix. The red safety dot is on the Echo series and Foxtrot did not have the red safety dot. That is all I can remember about the M9 introduction.

 

[Widebrim]

I recall a story about a squad in Viet Nam that had to bring up a guy with an M14 to basically cut down an Ironwood tree in themiddle of a Helo landing area. The 223 would not cut the tree bu the 308 took it out.

Both M16 and M14 are a joy to shoot but past 200 meters the 30cal is the clear winner.

As you may know, John, the Army uses the 7.62 for its sniper rifles (M24, 110), modified versions of the M14.

 

[Buggnkat]

7.62 is still a .30 cal round

 

[cw3pa]

I know most of the discussion has been about semi-autos, but I've come to prefer my .45 ACP revolver. A S&W M-325. It allows more flexability to handload, reloading with full moon clips is pretty quick. Some examples:

This is a .45 autorim vs a .380 ACP.

250gr vs 95gr

 

[Buggnkat]

How is it to shoot? Recoil or not? Kind of interesting gun to have!

 

[cw3pa]

The recoil isn't bad, as the revolver weighs a couple of pounds and we're not trying to turn it into a mega-magnum. I also changed the stocks from the provided wooden slats to Crimson Trace laser grips. Unfortunately I don't think they're available anymore. Here it is stowed it Threepersons holster from El Paso Saddlery.

 

[Buggnkat]

Nice pistol! I do like your holster, I havent seen leather work like that in a long while, very nice!

Here is my Rock Island Compact, nothing fancy just a good shooting gun:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/Buggnkat/Compact45.jpg

 

[DesertDan]

Nice revolver there cw3pa. I'm a wheelgunner myself, my usual is an S&W442 but I do strap on the M19 snub from time to time.

 

[1961MJS]

Nice pistol! I do like your holster, I havent seen leather work like that in a long while, very nice!

Here is my Rock Island Compact, nothing fancy just a good shooting gun:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/Buggnkat/Compact45.jpg

HI

My hands are too big to handle a .45 ACP in a compact or officer's sized 1911. I do like the Rock Island's though. I carry a full sized one though.

Later

 

[Buggnkat]

I can understand that Mike. I was sceptical of the Rocks, till I talked with several owners (and growing rapidly) and got gushing reviews from every single person I talked with. If a fellow board member were in the market for a 1911 I would most definitely recommend them!!

I love my Rock. She is my CCW. I am a bit of old school semi guy and like my 1911. Its what I grew up with, fought wars with and retired with.

 

[Landman]

Buggnat,

That's a nice looking Compact. Rock Island makes a very reliable and reasonably priced pistol. They are hard to beat for the price.

Since you are an old school 1911 guy I thought you might enjoy these pictures. It is an all original 1945 Remington Rand I picked up a few years ago at an estate sale. It was in a very nice condition Enger-Kress M3 Tanker Holster and the magazines were loaded with some 1943 headstamped ammo.

 

[Buggnkat]

OH SWEEEEEET! Nice find, all I see is moth eatten clothes. I need to follow you around!

 

[DesertDan]

Beautiful Remington - Rand, congratulations!
I currently own only two bottomfeeders, a Kel-Tec P32 which is my "always" gun simply because its size makes it so easy to carry that there is no reason not to have it. I have put 400 rounds through it and so far it has performed perfectly.

My other auto is a Kimber CDP II Pro which is the Commander sized member of that line. I know that Kimbers create much controversy but it has been flawless through 1000 rounds so far and I'm its second owner.

I don't CCW this pistol simply because I am not sufficently practiced in the manual of arms to be confident not to mishandle it in a crisis. A man has got to know his limitations.

That being said, I love 1911 pattern handguns. They are the only auto pistols I have handled that point as naturally as a revolver (at least for me). I want to add a full sized 1911 to my stable and have been strongly considering the RIA. Unless some sweet revolver or lever rifle catches my eye (a real possibility.....I am a weak man to their nefarious charms) a Rock Island GI just might be this years "refund toy".