9mm or 45cal

[HoosierDaddy]

Thanks for the well wishes,Allan.
HD

 

[HudsonHawk]

Unless there is already a firefight even cops pull their weapon but hold their fire unless there is no other choice but to use it. They are ready willing and able..but usually only if a warning goes unheeded. Not sure I would agree with a warning shot...but a warning of some kind is indeed most often worth a try. Those who suggest pulling a weapon and immediately firing(in many cases)have either never been in that position of stress or are irresponsible with only throwing around their favorite macho slogan as they accuse others of doing. Pulling a weapon is serious business which can entail grave consequences. Sometimes there is no other way but to use it. Other times it may not be necessary if observant even after you have pointed the gun.
HD

But I'm not a cop. I'm not trying to apprehend anyone. I'm not trying to enforce any law. I'm not trying to stop criminal activity. I'm trying to save my life. There is a HUGE difference in the way in which peace officers use their weapons and the way in which citizens defending their life should.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I think you are trying to have the last word as usual. So be it. [huh]

 

[HudsonHawk]

I think you are trying to have the last word as usual. So be it. [huh]

I'm trying to make a point by responding in the discussion. If you're seeking confirmation of your opinion, then ok, but it's not going to come from me.

 

[1961MJS]

Being willing and able..and doing so..are two different things. You seem to be changing the old saying of 'Don't pull a gun unless you are 'willing'..'ready'..and 'able' to use it'..to..'If you pull your pistol always use it to pump the aggressor full of lead' no matter the circumstances. It's certainly not wise to wave a gun around..but in some scenarios it's mere presence can calm or even stop anymore escalation of the situation real quick...and that may save a real tragedy on either side.
HD

Hi

I've taken the Concealed Carry class in both Kansas and Oklahoma. If you pull a gun and don't use it, you are guilty of a felony of brandishing, or assault. You will lose all of your firearms, your right to vote, and spend time in prison. If you feel the need to pull out a gun in those two states, and don't shoot someone, you will be punished. You have to be in fear for your life.

While I don't agree with that concept, that's the law.

 

[anon`]

Hi

I've taken the Concealed Carry class in both Kansas and Oklahoma. If you pull a gun and don't use it, you are guilty of a felony of brandishing, or assault. You will lose all of your firearms, your right to vote, and spend time in prison. If you feel the need to pull out a gun in those two states, and don't shoot someone, you will be punished. You have to be in fear for your life.

While I don't agree with that concept, that's the law.

Kansas and Oklahoma must have bizarre laws, then. Brandishing (the action, not the crime) is an acceptable display of force in every jurisdiction that I am familiar with. That is to say, to the extent a justification exists for the use or threat of (deadly) force in self defense or defense of others, openly displaying a firearm is not a felony. Immediate fear of one's life is usually (probably universally, in fact) a justification. As is a reasonable apprehension for one's life (the distinction is subtle, but present), or of serious bodily injury. A majority of states also impute a cognizable threat of death or serious bodily injury from an invasion of an occupied dwelling. Merely waving a firearm around because you happen to have one is, however, generally felonious conduct under statute.

 

[bburtner@moran]

Give me a 45ACP Colt 1917 revolver anyday...

 

[Maltese]

Heard this argument for years that a 9mm won't stop an intruder on drugs . Well if you use a high velocity defense round with hollow points
like a federal Hydro shock or Cor bon it will put the intruder down . Of course a .45 round of that quality makes a much bigger impact lol.

 

[Two Types]

As someone who has never held, let alone fired, a live weapon, I feel the need to throw a bit of humour into this debate.

I recall reading an account by a South African (or possibly a Rhodesian) soldier in which he fired an entire magazine from a Sterling submachine gun at an attacker. The rounds sprayed everywhere but hit nowhere. After missing with every round he disabled his assailant by hitting him over the head with the weapon.

I suppose the message is simple: 45cal or 45mm? Makes no difference if you miss.

 

[John in Covina]

As someone who has never held, let alone fired, a live weapon, I feel the need to throw a bit of humour into this debate. I recall reading an account by a South African (or possibly a Rhodesian) soldier in which he fired an entire magazine from a Sterling submachine gun at an attacker. The rounds sprayed everywhere but hit nowhere. After missing with every round he disabled his assailant by hitting him over the head with the weapon. I suppose the message is simple: 45cal or 45mm? Makes no difference if you miss.

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...
My rifle and I know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...
Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and I are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!


In this creed as used by the US Marines the concept of how it is hits that make the difference re-enforces what you have said.

 

[kiwilrdg]

I have been liking 40 cal more and more. Almost as easy to carry as a 9 mm and almost as powerful as a 45 cal.

I would never fire a warning shot as a bullet should be fired being mindful of where the bullet will go if it passes through.

 

[Stearmen]

I found these to funny quotes! “People who have been shot with a 9 mm have been known to get angry and resort to violent behavior.” and “A 9 mm may expand, but a .45 never shrinks.”

 

[Bonked]

Whatever caliber one chooses just make sure you practice a lot with the same ammo you are going to carry. I don`t know how many times I have seen people fire hundreds of rounds of ball ammo with never a misfeed and then load up with very expensive hollowpoints such as Talon to carry for defense not knowing weather or not the Talons will feed properly in their automatic. I still prefer my Colt Python 357 as it will feed anything including blanks for first shot warning.

 

[jkingrph]

This thread has been going on for a long time. 9mm vs 45, It all depends on the bullet, FMJ, I will take the 45, thinking a bigger hole going in and all the way is better. Good hollow points, the higher velocity 9mm may open better, but still will not wind up as big as the 45 and still will not cause as much tissue damage. A couple of years ago someone mentioned newer bullets in the 380 were almost as good as a 45. I just do not see how, they are very lightweight usually less than 100 gr, and even if they expand, due to lower velocity will not cause as much damage or transmit as much energy as a higher velocity 9mm or 45. Most 380's are blowback action, not delayed recoil as 9mm and 45 thus kick quicker and harder and are harder to handle in small guns.

If size is not an issue I like my full size 1911 or the Browning HP. If dressed a little lighter, a compact 45 is ok, for summer a S&W titanium light, hammerless ( double action) 38 special is carried in my pocket. The 38 is better than a 380 in my opinion, although that very light j frame is a handful with +p ammo for defensive loads. It is definetly a belly gun, not a long range gun.

 

[DesertDan]

A"warning shot", even if using blanks, is an extremely bad idea.

Modern defense ammunition has significantly reduced the difference of terminal performance between 9mm/.38 spl and .45acp.
Carry the weapon with which you are most proficent. Accuracy is paramount, caliber is secondary.

 

[Tomtheantiquarian]

I generally carry a revolver rather than an auto. That said, I must mention a positively delightful gun chambered for .45. At least, I find it a delight to shoot. That gun is the Para-Ordnance P10-45, later called the Warthog. I have large hands so I can only get two fingers around the grip. I curl my little finger below it. When I shoot it there's hardly any felt recoil; it just rocks up and back. I know that this is a function of the short grip because I have magazines with an extended grip which allows me to fully grip the gun. When I do that it's no different from firing any other 1911. I'm not saying that others should do this because choice of gun as well as chambering is subjective. However, it's worth an examination. It's available in a 9mm iteration as well.

There have been so many bullet designs for both of these rounds that any realistic comparison is probably impossible. For any given gun, recoil is less when chambered for the 9mm. The 9mm is a supersonic round, however. When the user must draw and fire quickly with no time to use hearing protection recovery time for hearing can be quite lengthy. The .45, a subsonic round, doesn't have this problem.

As far as stopping power is concerned, either should be adequate. I'm not trying to capture him; I'm just trying to stop him from hurting me or mine.

My everyday carry is a Smith & Wesson Model 638 in my right pants pocket with no holster. I prefer the shrouded hammer to the fully enclosed hammer because it allows me to fire single action. I load two Magsafes and three 125 grain hollowpoints. In cold weather when I wear a jacket I have a Model 640 in the right pocket with no holster. The ammo is the same type but .357 magnum.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

One of the handguns I carry is the alloy framed P12-45. After some throat & trigger work I finally talked my range buddy into selling it to me years ago(in a weak moment). When he bought it new and I fired it..the accuracy of that particular pistol in my hand at 25 yards was incredible. I have several .45s in different sizes (Colt..Para..and a few custom)..but this smaller pistol out shoots them all. One of those guns that only come along very rarely.
HD

 

[jkingrph]

I tried one of the Para P 10 models, and found it too heavy for carry, and uncomfortable to shoot. The grip is just too short, and it consistently shot low. I have a one of the big 14-45 models I use for a truck gun, with a couple of extra 14 round mags I have a lot in a relatively small package. My favorite for cold weather carry when I can conceal it easily is one of the LDA -PDA models, a compact light double action model.

 

[1961MJS]

A"warning shot", even if using blanks, is an extremely bad idea.

Modern defense ammunition has significantly reduced the difference of terminal performance between 9mm/.38 spl and .45acp.
Carry the weapon with which you are most proficient. Accuracy is paramount, caliber is secondary.

Yep, I use a 1911 in .45 ACP. 1911 because I can't shoot double action semi-automatics worth a damn, and .45 ACP because 9mm 1911's are generally thought to be jam-o-matics. I haven't shot a 9mm 1911, but having a few in .45 ACP, I don't feel the need.

Later

 

[jkingrph]

I have been liking 40 cal more and more. Almost as easy to carry as a 9 mm and almost as powerful as a 45 cal.

I would never fire a warning shot as a bullet should be fired being mindful of where the bullet will go if it passes through.

Never tried a .40, but have a Colt Delta Gold Cup in 10mm Auto, the predecessor to the "10mm short" . It's very powerful, much more so than a .45, more like a .357 mag. I have shot hanging plates offhand with it at 60-70 yards. Downside is that recoil is fairly sharp, but not bad and ammo is difficult to find and pricy. Power level is up so much that Colt used dual recoil springs.