80s Punks / 00s Fedorans

[Feraud]

To me the most significant aspect of both surveys is actually the very small number who have participated. It seems to me that the majority of loungers are voting with their feet and sending a clear message about the presence of so much contemporary political debate in this forum! That doesn‘t mean they are non-political.

Very perceptive.

 

[Senator Jack]

I think it reflects three things. Firstly, the Lounge didn’t grow out of the mainstream vintage scene but out of the Indiana Jones fan scene. The traditional vintage scene, which grew out of the 60s counter-culture and was massively reinforced by a series of cult music scenes in the 70s/80s/90s, seems to have had a more liberal orientation than the Indy crowd: in the lounge the two have met. Or should I say collided.

Not to start a liberal/conservative debate here, but now that you mention this, Night, apart from the rural antique dealers, I don't think I've ever run into a conservative vintage aficionado till joining the Lounge. On the other hand, I believe I've met more people in the Lounge who appreciate a wider range of vintage eras than the music-based aficionadoes I've met. The people in the Mod/Soul scene here in NY are strictly Mod/Soul. The Rockabilly/Pyschobilly cats are strictly Rockabilly/Psychobilly. I think I'm the only one around here that, like Billy Pilgrim, is unstuck in time. One night I'm at the swing dance and the next I'm at the soul club, and I never see people from one at the other.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[WEEGEE]

Can't wait to see it...

BegintheBeguine

I'm very excited aboout this documentary. But, this movie is not scheduled to be shown at my local theatre.

It seems like the perfect movie to play at The Little Theatre...i was in college at RIT in the early 80's...decent punk scene...Scorgies...Wendy O. Williams!!!


Senator

One night I'm at the swing dance and the next I'm at the soul club, and I never see people from one at the other.

I never get this (not seeing more of a cross pollination) ...i guess that is why eclectic is eclectic (good way to be)

 

[Dinerman]

yeah- but we're all trying to be different than all the conformist squares out there.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

To me the most significant aspect of both surveys is actually the very small number who have participated. It seems to me that the majority of loungers are voting with their feet and sending a clear message about the presence of so much contemporary political debate in this forum!

Night, I'm not sure what you mean by "voting with their feet?" If you mean that they are staying away from posts that concern politics, you may be right. If you are saying that they are staying away from The Lounge in general, then you are dead wrong. Our membership has never been higher, nor our numbers of active members. I do suspect you meant the former.

Also, you suggested the answer in your thread, if you do not want political discussions, then stay away from those threads and perhaps the OB in general. And please don't bring politics out of the OB and into a thread, such as this one.

I would also say that you discussion as to the origins of the vintage movement and all of that is interesting and provocative and would make an interesting post in the OB.

Let's keep this thread focused.

 

[herringbonekid]

And please don't bring politics out of the OB and into a thread, such as this one....
Let's keep this thread focused.

thats' not quite fair Hem,
politics was raised by Senator Jack early on (post 4) and is bound up with hardcore punk music. (but i'm not talking about politics anymore)

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Senator, do you think it's ironic that a once angry young punk (such as i presume you might have been) could grow up to be a defender of certain styles and lifestyle choices that could be considered conservative... e.g the wearing of hats, suits and being civilised in public ?
...p.s. that hardcore music was never for me. too much aggression/testosterone.

Actually, Herringbone, it looks like it was raised by you in post #3! lol
I just don't want threads in The Moving Picture to host political discussions that belong in the OB. I think that's fair.

 

[jake_fink]

Actually, Herringbone, it looks like it was raised by you in post #3! lol
I just don't want threads in The Moving Picture to host political discussions that belong in the OB. I think that's fair.

Is that a new policy? The Pleasantville thread was pretty political. Or do you mean that you don't want political discussions unless they can be directly relatd to the film?

Cheers.

 

[herringbonekid]

Actually, Herringbone, it looks like it was raised by you in post #3! lol

oh.....yes.....imagine that !....actually i meant 'conservative' as in 'civilised' or 'traditional'. not politically 'right wing'. you know.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Is that a new policy? The Pleasantville thread was pretty political. Or do you mean that you don't want political discussions unless they can be directly relatd to the film?

Cheers.

Exactly! Some films are inherently political. So, it would be tough to separate the politics from the film, if we were having a serious discussion. If someone read something political in a non-political film and backed it up with examples from the film, that would be fair game. But a random discussion of the liberal vs conservative origins of the vintage movement belongs in the OB.

 

[doghouse]

I probably will see this myself... though I transitioned to vintage via metal.

 

[BegintheBeguine]

It seems like the perfect movie to play at The Little Theatre...i was in college at RIT in the early 80's...decent punk scene...Scorgies...Wendy O. Williams!!!

It will be at the Little in December, just looked at their expanded sked. I must have seen you at Scorgie's or even on campus at RIT: I modeled for photo and film students.

 

[Senator Jack]

Really didn't mean to open that can! Honest!

But HerringboneKid is correct - the 80s hardcore scene that the documentary follows was tied to politics. that's what it was all about. I knew of only one band that was right wing and that was Stisism, a three-piece from Brooklyn. They wrote songs like 'Up with Reagan' but I knew the lead singer/songwriter and was of the feeling he did this just to rattle the cage of all the leftist bands.

Seems to me, though, that since the very title of this thread precludes visits by the more conservative of our lot, it's not going to turn polemical. I plan on seeing the film sometime this week, and I'll reply with review.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Citizen Ed]

Wasn't Fear a right leaning band?

 

[Rick Blaine]

Thank you Night & the City.

OK, agreed, its tangenital. So I'll confine myself to this one post on the subject!

There are certainly some strong conservatives here. But there’s a lot of liberals and leftists too. I wouldn’t like to guess the true proportions. Hemingway has a sticky poll at the moment (one person one vote) which last time I looked showed around 1/3 liberal to 2/3 conservative, but another current OB thread (The Political Compass, which aims to measure where you really are rather than where you think you are) shows a slight liberal majority so far.

To me the most significant aspect of both surveys is actually the very small number who have participated. It seems to me that the majority of loungers are voting with their feet and sending a clear message about the presence of so much contemporary political debate in this forum! That doesn‘t mean they are non-political. I know of at least three Trotskyists in this forum, and I’ve noticed they almost never enter political debates (and have not done the political compass test either). It’s simply not what most people come here for. In fact its probably the sort of thing they come to escape from.

Personally I could do without it. Most of the time I avoid the OB or else read the stuff and bite my lip. Then my lip starts to hurt and bingo, in the ring again…..

The situation does intrigue me though. When I first came here I was really surprised by the number of right-wingers. In the UK and Europe most people into vintage clothes, 1930s film and music etc tend to be fairly left-wing (I can speak with some authority here having been a vintage dealer for almost 25 years and professionally involved in various revivalist music scenes since the 1960s)

I think it reflects three things. Firstly, the Lounge didn’t grow out of the mainstream vintage scene but out of the Indiana Jones fan scene. The traditional vintage scene, which grew out of the 60s counter-culture and was massively reinforced by a series of cult music scenes in the 70s/80s/90s, seems to have had a more liberal orientation than the Indy crowd: in the lounge the two have met. Or should I say collided.

Secondly, the 1930s and 40s seems to be seen by many US conservatives as a kind of Golden Age (bizarre really, given its domination by New Deal Democrats). In the UK conservatives are more likely to see this era as a nightmare world of insurgent communists, mass socialist parties, powerful labour unions etc. When they look back they tend to idealize the Victorian era or - again, rather oddly - the 1950s, the high point of British Parliamentary Socialism! (Not to mention the birth of Rock and Roll.....)

Thirdly, this is not actually a vintage clothing forum. It covers a much wider range of interests, that’s why it is so good. There are plenty people here who are solely interested in hats. Others whose interest is in classic/traditional rather than vintage. Others into film, or music, or history. There’s a whole sub group primarily interested in historical re-enactment. It’s a big building and its bound to house a wide range of opinions.

.. for this very thoughtful, well reasoned & analytical post... very thought provoking...

Cheers,

Rick

 

[jake431]

I'll definitely check this movie out.

-Jake

 

[Salv]

Apologies to the US ex-punks, but I thought I'd point out that BBC4 in the UK had an evening of programmes about Stiff Records last week, and some of these will be repeated this weekend:

Stiff at the BBC
1/2. A nostalgic hour's romp through the Top of the Pops archive featuring appearances from inimitable Stiff artists such as Madness, Ian Dury, The Pogues, Lene Lovich and Jona Lewie.
- BBC Four, Fri 29 Sep, 20:30-21:00 30mins Stereo Widescreen

If It Ain't Stiff
Documentary on Stiff Records. Founded by two penniless visionaries, Stiff invented the new wave with Nick Lowe, put punk on vinyl with The Damned and gave the world Ian Dury. Strong language.
- BBC Four, Fri 29 Sep, 21:00-22:30 90mins Stereo Widescreen

Stiff at the BBC
2/2. A second hour of music from the BBC's archive, featuring appearances from inimitable Stiff artists such as Madness, Ian Dury, The Pogues, Lene Lovich and Jona Lewie.
- BBC Four, Fri 29 Sep, 23:00-00:00 60mins Stereo

Lene Lovich: Rock Goes to College
Lene Lovich, the part English, part Yugoslavian star of the Stiff label brings her proto-goth new-wave pop to Liverpool University in a performance from 1980.
- BBC Four, Sat 30 Sep, 00:00-00:50 50mins Stereo

If It Ain't Stiff
Documentary on Stiff Records. Founded by two penniless visionaries, Stiff invented the new wave with Nick Lowe, put punk on vinyl with The Damned and gave the world Ian Dury. Strong language.
- BBC Four, Sat 30 Sep, 00:50-02:20 90mins Stereo Widescreen

Stiff at the BBC
1/2. A nostalgic hour's romp through the Top of the Pops archive featuring appearances from inimitable Stiff artists such as Madness, Ian Dury, The Pogues, Lene Lovich and Jona Lewie.
- BBC Four, Sat 30 Sep, 02:20-02:50 30mins Stereo Widescreen

If It Ain't Stiff
Documentary on Stiff Records. Founded by two penniless visionaries, Stiff invented the new wave with Nick Lowe, put punk on vinyl with The Damned and gave the world Ian Dury. Strong language.
- BBC Four, Sun 1 Oct, 23:30-01:00 90mins Stereo Widescreen

 

[scotrace]

Scenes

You folks may as well be speaking some obscure dialect of Flemish.

I liked my dad's Glenn Miller records, and thought vintage was cool because I liked old movies almost obsessively.

But I did like Talking Heads. Er... were they in a "scene?"

 

[jake_fink]

Apologies to the US ex-punks, but I thought I'd point out that BBC4 in the UK had an evening of programmes about Stiff Records last week, and some of these will be repeated this weekend:

Quote:
Stiff at the BBC
1/2. A nostalgic hour's romp through the Top of the Pops archive featuring appearances from inimitable Stiff artists such as Madness, Ian Dury, The Pogues, Lene Lovich and Jona Lewie.
- BBC Four, Fri 29 Sep, 20:30-21:00 30mins Stereo Widescreen

If It Ain't Stiff
Documentary on Stiff Records. Founded by two penniless visionaries, Stiff invented the new wave with Nick Lowe, put punk on vinyl with The Damned and gave the world Ian Dury. Strong language.
- BBC Four, Fri 29 Sep, 21:00-22:30 90mins Stereo Widescreen

Stiff at the BBC
2/2. A second hour of music from the BBC's archive, featuring appearances from inimitable Stiff artists such as Madness, Ian Dury, The Pogues, Lene Lovich and Jona Lewie.
- BBC Four, Fri 29 Sep, 23:00-00:00 60mins Stereo

Lene Lovich: Rock Goes to College
Lene Lovich, the part English, part Yugoslavian star of the Stiff label brings her proto-goth new-wave pop to Liverpool University in a performance from 1980.
- BBC Four, Sat 30 Sep, 00:00-00:50 50mins Stereo

If It Ain't Stiff
Documentary on Stiff Records. Founded by two penniless visionaries, Stiff invented the new wave with Nick Lowe, put punk on vinyl with The Damned and gave the world Ian Dury. Strong language.
- BBC Four, Sat 30 Sep, 00:50-02:20 90mins Stereo Widescreen

Stiff at the BBC
1/2. A nostalgic hour's romp through the Top of the Pops archive featuring appearances from inimitable Stiff artists such as Madness, Ian Dury, The Pogues, Lene Lovich and Jona Lewie.
- BBC Four, Sat 30 Sep, 02:20-02:50 30mins Stereo Widescreen

If It Ain't Stiff
Documentary on Stiff Records. Founded by two penniless visionaries, Stiff invented the new wave with Nick Lowe, put punk on vinyl with The Damned and gave the world Ian Dury. Strong language.
- BBC Four, Sun 1 Oct, 23:30-01:00 90mins Stereo Widescreen

That's what I'm talkin' bout.

 

[Salv]

But I did like Talking Heads. Er... were they in a "scene?"

Early NY art-school punk, along with Richard Hell, Tom Verlaine, and Patti Smith. Their first gig was in June '75 supporting the Ramones at CBGB.

All together now: Psycho killer, qu'est ce que c'est, fa-fa-fa-fa fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-far better, run run run, run run away...