4x4 - The Debate

[Caledonia]

Apart from the excessive chrome, unnecessary elevation, abhorrent colour scheme, looks neither compact enough nor sizeable enough to be useful, and what else? Oh, nothing wrong with it really!

 

[jamespowers]

So what are every ones feelings on this one?

http://www.f650pickups.com/indexb.html

The Ford F650

It's just shy of needing a commercial license to drive it.

I see what's wrong with it right now. It's made by the nutcake Bill Ford's company. Nothing they make surprises me. :fing28: :whistling

Regards to all,

J

 

[Twitch]

Let me premise this by saying I don't and never have owned a truck, van or SUV and never will. For gentle folks who revere the bygone eras for their oppulance and luxury please realize that back in the 1930s no one could justify the expense of the Pierce-Arrow if they had to. How could a Packard V-12 be sensible on gas? Why would anyone need a huge barge like a Cadillac sedan with a V-16 no less! Weren't folks in a depression? Why weren't economical Fords and Chevies good enough for everyone?

Many SUVs today are the huge luxury vehicle relative to the times just as monster Caddies and Packards were then. The Escalade is simply a Cadillac 4-dr. sedan V-16 reincarnate. The difference is that today a LOT of people can afford it relative to these times.

That's why I can't get next to auto choice bashing. Will non-hybrids be the next target so only the smug owners of gas/electrics will be able to gloat and swagger? Should Japanese cars be the only thing to own?

Car owners a fickled obviously. They abandoned station wagons and went right for SUVs when offered. Not really larger inside in most cases, just more expensive.

When a new trend begins the auto companies that are behind lose sales= lose money. They respond in kind with similar vehicles to compete in a free world market. Never mind if Volvo builds an SUV. The reason they do is because they are being competitive in order to increase or maintain sales and because there is a market for it from their research.

Skinnychik- your request for a 4WD van is valid. A 4WD will be better than AWD because of milage. Changing from 2WD doing errands and hauling kids to school-99% of the use- to 4WD for mountain climbing. Full time 4WD or AWD uses more fuel 99% of the time too.

It's like every situation of automobilia desire- if you have enough money you can have what you want.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Twitch, can I borrow your ride? I can? Thanks! Bye!

.

 

[Caledonia]

Full time 4WD or AWD uses more fuel 99% of the time too.

Just a personal opinion, but nobody should be running a fulltime 4WD or AWD for exactly that point. Apart from of course the exceptions that prove the rule! Military, emergency services etc.

 

[jamespowers]

Car owners a fickled obviously. They abandoned station wagons and went right for SUVs when offered. Not really larger inside in most cases, just more expensive.

Actually, the government killed station wagons not the public. They raised the CAFE standards ridiculously high and the car companies just went around it with the SUV, which is rated as a truck with different CAFE standards. The public knew what they wanted and bought the SUV in place of the staion wagon. If you want someone to blame for the SUV abundance then you have to blame the government for regulating the station wagon out of existence. Some comapnies are now bringing them back on a much smaller scale now that they can make ministaion wagons and sell them. Chrysler is again leading the way like they did with the minivan.
The transition was obvious. If you have a large family of three children as my friend was a part of then you need a vehicle to fit five people and their luggage or gear not five midgets. The hybrid ain't gonna work.

Regards,

J

 

[Marc Chevalier]

If you have a large family of three children as my friend was a part of then you need a vehicle to fit five people and their luggage or gear not five midgets.

The concept of "need" is sooo relative. Most large families in this world get by just fine with cars that are smaller than station wagons. It's amazing how many things we convince ourselves that we need.

.

 

[Serial Hero]

That’s the problem. Trucks and SUVs are not regulated the same as passenger vehicles (cars). They don't have to meet the same standards as cars do, because the government regulations assume that there are fewer of them on the road. If their going to be used as passenger vehicles then they should be regulated as such.

 

[jamespowers]

The concept of "need" is sooo relative. Most large families in this world get by just fine with cars that are smaller than station wagons. It's amazing how many things we convince ourselves that we need.

.

Have you seen my friend and his brothers? They are all over six feet and well over 200 pounds each. They NEEDED a station wagon and a big one. They had me convinced for sure.

Regards,

J

 

[jamespowers]

That’s the problem. Trucks and SUVs are not regulated the same as passenger vehicles (cars). They don't have to meet the same standards as cars do, because the government regulations assume that there are fewer of them on the road. If their going to be used as passenger vehicles then they should be regulated as such.

Then another larger class of vehicles will come out and you won't like them either.
Nothing happens in a vacuum or without Murphy's Law in effect.

Regards,

J

 

[Retro Grouch]

Um, interesting thread?[huh]

Personally, I own three 4x4 vehicles ranging in age from '67-'91. #4 is in the works. I also live in the mountains, on a dirt road. Yes, I "use" 4WD. I would like to see a two wheel drive vehicle make it to my house in the middle of winter.

As for their uses;

'67 IH Scout 800, built for off road (on trail) use.
'76 IH Scout Traveler, snow plow and daily driver
'91 Subaru Wagon, daily driver

Granted, most of the 4x4s on the road never see or never need to see 4WD. But some people like to compensate (ie; H2, Escalade...).

One of my past co-workers bought a Ford Explorer and had no clue what 4WD was for. She drove it around, in 4WD, for a week and took it back to the dealer saying it made funny noises and didn't drive well. :eusa_doh:

Recreational 4x4 is a different story. I'm a big fan of it but also admit that there are more than a few idiots in the game. Those idiots do a lot to ruin it for the rest of us.

Tom

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Scout!

I have such fond memories of our Scout. The unsynchronized vacuum wipers in the rain (fascinating for a small kid to watch) that wonderfully crazy half-a-V8 that reflected some real out-of-the-box thinking, the Warn hubs, the 3 (count 'em!) gear levers, the trips up into the mountains of northern California... Good times.

I almost wish I could find one in nice shape. It'd have to be a '63 or a '64, in root beer brown with a tan top though. Ours had the fancy roll-up windows in the front doors, too, rather than the standard back 'n forth sliding windows.

 

[Retro Grouch]

Tony,

Check out Binderbulletin.org. You could probably find an 80 locally or just reminisce some more. I'm looking for an 80 for a future project.

The 152s are fun engines. Even more fun when they are turbo charged. Vacuum wipers are hypnotic but no good in the mountains.

I always loved the simplicity of the early Scouts. Totally utilitarian.

Tom

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Thanks! Just reminiscing now, no room for another vehicle.

 

[Caledonia]

Um, interesting thread?[huh]

Personally, I own three 4x4 vehicles ranging in age from '67-'91. #4 is in the works. I also live in the mountains, on a dirt road. Yes, I "use" 4WD. I would like to see a two wheel drive vehicle make it to my house in the middle of winter.

As for their uses;

'67 IH Scout 800, built for off road (on trail) use.
'76 IH Scout Traveler, snow plow and daily driver
'91 Subaru Wagon, daily driver

Granted, most of the 4x4s on the road never see or never need to see 4WD. But some people like to compensate (ie; H2, Escalade...).

One of my past co-workers bought a Ford Explorer and had no clue what 4WD was for. She drove it around, in 4WD, for a week and took it back to the dealer saying it made funny noises and didn't drive well. :eusa_doh:

Recreational 4x4 is a different story. I'm a big fan of it but also admit that there are more than a few idiots in the game. Those idiots do a lot to ruin it for the rest of us.

Tom

Ah, Subaru. Dangnably expensive on parts, but one of the best! Old subaru pickup I drove. Looked really low on the road, but it could go just about anywhere. Being old it didn't have a diff lock which would have helped on a couple of occasions. Haven't driven one in years. Miss it.

 

[Retro Grouch]

Subys aren't that expensive to maintain. Most have open diffs, which isn't as desirable. I do like the older Subys with the 2 speed transfer case. They are a lot better in the snow. The little wagons that go forever.

Tom