19th C weapon found in whale

[Fleur De Guerre]

You know, I wish we would spend more money exploring the sea than space. Space is pretty neat but it seems like every few months we discover an entirely new, insane species of sea life, ie giant squid monsters. That or they find those thought-to-be-extinct dinosaur fish getting caught up in nets. Makes you wonder how long some whales actually live.

God...maybe there's some evil whale society living deep, deep below in the depths of the oceans. I suppose we'll never know.

Me too! I love that film The Abyss. We know so little about the seas yet we spend so much on space. It makes no sense.

 

[RIOT]

How is killing and eating a whale any different than doing the same to a chicken or a cow or a pig, etc? They're all living creatures. Granted ... some taste a whole lot better than others. I can say growing up on a farm that no animal likes being slaughtered and nobody likes doing the deed. But there was never an empty seat at the dining room table that night.

Richard

There is just not enough of them to slaughter them like cows & chickens. I am not really the type that waves the endangered species flag but I do want my children, if I do have any, to actually see what a whale looks like in person.

However if it is for the survival of man and there is no other source of meat around, then, do so. Just don't hunt them in the droves.

 

[Rooster]

There is just not enough of them to slaughter them like cows & chickens. I am not really the type that waves the endangered species flag but I do want my children, if I do have any, to actually see what a whale looks like in person.

However if it is for the survival of man and there is no other source of meat around, then, do so. Just don't hunt them in the droves.

I'm 50 and have never seen a whale in person, can't imagine I ever will and I'm not too worried about it.
I will agree that there should be some hunting regulations so the species isn't driven to extinction. Those regulation are probably already in place. I know they probably wouldn't allow me to go chuck a harpoon in a whale with out going to prison for it. I believe the American Indian tribes are the only ones in the US that are allowed to even take whales .
Really a non issue. If a tree falls in the forrest and you don't see or hear it does it bother you? If a whale is killed by indidgionous peoples and you don't know of the event does it bother you? It doesn't me.

 

[Undertow]

Well I wouldn't go as far as to say it doesn't bother me, but I think a species being hunted, or trapped, or harvested in an irresponsible way is bad no matter what species it is. I also think humanity is quite short sighted in its efforts to regulate itself in these matters, ie hunting buffalo from trains, etc.

Personally, I don't see why we NEED to hunt whale. What's the point? We have tons of other fish to kill. Leave good ol' whales out of it, I say.

(Although having read Moby Dick, I would love to see a whale being hunted and killed. )

 

[Rooster]

Well I wouldn't go as far as to say it doesn't bother me, but I think a species being hunted, or trapped, or harvested in an irresponsible way is bad no matter what species it is. I also think humanity is quite short sighted in its efforts to regulate itself in these matters, ie hunting buffalo from trains, etc.

Personally, I don't see why we NEED to hunt whale. What's the point? We have tons of other fish to kill. Leave good ol' whales out of it, I say.

(Although having read Moby Dick, I would love to see a whale being hunted and killed. )

So who says this whale was taken irresponsibly?[huh] And who is to decide what is irresponsible?
You'll notice that even with buffalo hunting from trains in the old days we still have buffalo even today. Thank God they got rid of all those beasties, how would you like to see those shaggy creatures walking around Downtown Des Moines!l or grazing in your vegatable garden!
I have customers that have shot the shaggy beast and say they are quite tasty.....:essen:

 

[Undertow]

Oh, I don't know that the whales were taken irresponsibly. No clue. And I like me the taste of buffy meat. mmm mmm!

 

[Nashoba]

They aren't taken irresponsibly. In fact there is quite a bit of red tape that goes into it. Even though we still retain our 'hunting rights' there are still alot of federal people to please and the animal rights groups to contend with. The tribe can't just go out and hunt a whale. They have to get special permission and the fish and game dept is involved for pretty much the entire process. And if I recall correctly (as i'm not inuit and I know a heck of a lot more about southern tribes than I do alaskan) only one hunt is done in a long while. I don't think it's once a year anymore, I think there are several years in between hunts at this point. And if I also recall correctly the whale is hunted using the old methods and not using sonar / gps. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. The whole point of preserving the hunt is to pass on the knowledge of the old ways. using sonar and gps would defeat that purpose.

And buffalo meat is fantastic. We bought a whole buffalo as a drum once and divied up the meat amongst everyone. The singer who arranged it got the head...not sure what he did with it, but I remember it was huge. And buffalo is actually quite a bit leaner and healthier for you than beef. If it weren't so danged expensive in the stupid health food stores out here, I'd buy it more often. I should look into finding a cheaper supplier.....off to google....

 

[60Years2Late]

Probably gonna get flamed for this, but..

Now, this is just my opinion, so please understand that I am not attacking your opinion. Politically correct statement out of the way, I shall now divulge.

I am an extremely conservative type, you must understand. I believe whole heartedly in many things right wing. Call it what you will, but that's part of my upbringing. And like many right wingers, I was brought up in a nice country home, more specifically in Alabama. Now, contrary to what you might believe, and what position you might take on our level of education in that great state, we're not stupid. My views are my views, and not that of everyone else whom you might say I represent, so please don't see this post and say "That's one stupid S.O.B., and I truly believe that anyone who associates with such an uncaring (insert expletives here) must as well be completely and utterly uneducated."

All of that said. Folks, the way I see it, God put us on this Earth and made us who we are. He gave us something that very few mammals have, and that's concious thought, and the ability to reason. Using this ability, humanity has built automobiles, rifles, airplanes, sattelites, ships, and has even gone to the moon. We've gone from hunting other animals with our bare hands to hunting them from 800 meters with a rifle. I see this not as an atrocity, but a feat of humanity. It's the way the world works. Say what you will, but the honest truth is, we ARE the top of the food chain. I don't see lions, tigers, and bears limiting their hunts, and were it not for the strict controls placed on certain predators in certain areas, a number of species would be extinct simply due to Mother Nature herself, with nothing contributed to humanity. Species have become endangered, extinct, and have rebounded, all without help from humanity for millions of years. It's the way of the world. If all the sudden there's no whales, which I doubt will EVER happen, then hey. Tough for the whales, but I don't feel any pain from it. So I can't stare at them? Oh well. He'll make for heat and light for some really retro Inuit up in the Aleutians. As for the buffalo, they're still here. Not because of controls placed on their hunting, though. That didn't come about until long after the hunting slowed down. And to be frank, that's really not a good example. The buffalo were hunted almost to extinction on purpose. We were trying to drive out the indians, to wreck their economy. People were hired to ride on those trains and shoot the buffalo, so that the local tribes would move, and the railroad could purchase the land. And ya know what? I don't regret it one bit. Because of that, the west coast was civilized. All of that played major parts in history.
Anyway, I say this. An animal is just that. An animal. Any delusions you have of an animal being human is just that. They aren't, plain and simple. And it's our place as humans, as hunters, to kill the things. Now me, I don't hunt whale. I never will. I don't club seals, or shoot buffalo. I hunt deer and duck. And I know that by hunting dear and duck, I help keep their populations to a manageable level, so that they don't screw the ecosystem up. We are, ourselves, a vital part of that ecosystem. For us to cease our regular operations would be like all the lions in the Sahara just waking up one morning and saying "Ya know what? Let's just eat grass from now on." It would destroy the ecosystem. You can't ignore nature. We are the way we are for a reason, and it's all one big, happy cycle. Sometimes it isn't quite so happy, and you just have to accept that. That's what makes the world go round. Hell. By allowing Whales to roam free with no natural predators would be a deathknell for the plankton of the seas. And then the whales would die anyway, from starvation. So we just gotta suck it up and deal with the fact that politically correct isn't quite so correct.

Just my take.

 

[J.B.]

How is killing and eating a whale any different than doing the same to a chicken or a cow or a pig, etc? They're all living creatures...

Concur.

"...an elephant may be said to consist of a vastly larger amount of living substance than a mouse. But if we think of Life as the fact of livingness we do not associate it with any idea of extension, and we at once realize that the mouse is quite as much alive as the elephant, notwithstanding the difference in size." ~ Thomas Troward

 

[HungaryTom]

Rare Whales Can Live to Nearly 200, Eye Tissue Reveals

The article>

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/07/060713-whale-eyes.html

I thought only reptiles (giant tortoises) can live that long...

Cheers:

Tom

 

[Twitch]

If we believe the bible then we know Man- yes, Man not humans, it was written before politically correctness touched everything- has dominance over all the beasts, fish and fowl. We are the dominant species on this planet and what we do with it is our business. Being that we are a rather violent species, which goes back to our proto-human days it stands to reason that we pretty much shoot 1st and ask questions later. It's the nature things.

The really, really sad part is that this news blurb once again diverts our attention from the human suffering on the globe to that lf the lesser beasts. To elevate any beast equal or higher than humans is simply perverse and wrong under God's eyes. It's one thing to have compassion for an animal but quite another to be discompassionate towards our fellow humans. Loving animals and elevating them using PETA's "a pig is a dog is a boy" rationale is twisted.

It's human life that is the most sacred.

People have perverted the propogation of domesticated pets to a point beyond sanity resulting in explosive numbers of animals that could never be placed in caring homes. It's this petty and vain attempt by people to "own" an increasing number of animals that fuels the puppy mills and similar breeding facilities that pump out animals which ultimately show genetic and psychological flaws just to sate the demand for more pet critters.

Quenching the demand in a society where a gazillion dollars are spent on an industry concerning the ownership of pets is insane when we realize so much is frivilous money for animal toys, an unceasing number of "treats" and even clothes is wasted is surreal!

I've always explained a scenario where if I was armed with a suitable rifle and the absolute last magnificent tiger, lion or fill-in-the-blank was about to attack a half retarded, alchoholic, homeless street bum that stank of his own filth, I would not hesitate a second to vanquish the beast.

Before you go off the deep end thinking I'm anti animal let me tell you that I am not. I donate to a charitable orginaztion called the Heifer Project that gives domesticated farm animals to needy people so they can better them selves with the products of the animals.

 

[Undertow]

Twitch, I totally agree in that I can't tolerate focus being taken away from human suffering and placed on animal suffering. I love animals, I think they're wonderful, I really believe humans have a long way to go before we understand them.

But crikey, we should work on the log in our eyes before trying to remove the splinter in the Animal Kingdom's.

I don't regret it one bit. Because of that, the west coast was civilized.

Honestly, wow. I'm not going to make a comment on the meaning, although I fully understand it. I'm more concerned about your choice of expression. But I won't EVEN get into this discussion. First of all, it borders politics and second of all, it's totally fftopic: .

 

[Rooster]

I blame it all on Walt Disney and Bambi.

 

[Ben]

If you think animals can't be wiped out, look up the passenger pigeon.

Buffalo only survived because the hunting was halted. I think that was done by that hippy environmentalist Teddy Roosevelt.

Maybe if buffalo hadn't been hunted so much, we could have more buffalo herds and less beef herds. Buffalo is a far better meat.

Also, you may think it is not a problem is an animal gets wiped out and you have never seen it, but the reality is, it might affect you. Wipe out a predator or introduce a strange species into a new place nad you have all sorts of problems. Zebra mussels in the Great Lakes, rabbits in Australia, reduction of wolves in the great plains and forests leading to high deer populations, etc.

Even if you subscribe to the biblical concept of dominion, that doesn't negate the responsibility of stewardship. Do you really want to have to face your maker and confess that you share culpability for mismanaging his creation?

As for more exploration of the sea, one of the theories on why we are seeing creatures like the giant squids more frequently is that they are running out of food. We have fished out the oceans to such a degree that they are coming out of the depths to find what scarce food is left.

While some of us may not care whether we see a whale, or the pyramids of Giza, or an authentic ghost dance, there are those of us who want to. It is better to err on the side saving as much as possible. More interest is earned that way.

 

[Nashoba]

I blame it all on Walt Disney and Bambi.

lol fish are friends and we don't eat friends.....One day I might actually have to watch Finding Nemo.....

As for the rest of it
I will simply say that we cannot hold the people of the 19th century to the ideals and morals of the 21st. Do I regret that those things had to happen? Yes I do. I have family members who died walking the Trail of Tears. I have family who survived the ordeal and were re-located to Oklahoma where a good number of them STILL live. But do I reap the benefits of the aftermath? Yes, I do. And I have a strong enough belief that things are in God's hands and it's for that reason that I don't subscribe to the 'poor indian community we've been screwed for so long mentality'. Get out, better yourself, and improve your position in life. But I still believe, that in a country that prides itself on the freedoms that men and women have fought and died to preserve, that we do have a right to preserve our traditions and those include hunting.
I grew up in California where in the same day I would watch people come together for a cause and then key my car for the Marine Corps stickers across the back telling me that my husband was a killer. I've seen injured friends denied medical treatment at university hospitals because they were American Indian (and told they had to go to the indian health center) and then doted over because it was learned that the injury occured on the university grounds. And even as little as 50 years ago American Indian women were going to the Indian health center doctors for a check up and coming out of the office sterile. The injustice that we do to one another far outweighs the injustices that we have done to animals.
Yes it's important to preserve and protect our ecosystem and all those that live in it. We have stewardship and responsibility over all that we have dominion over. And we SHOULD be responsible in the way that we hunt and harvest. I want these things to be around for my children and grandchildren too. The buffalo are making an amazing come back due to the efforts of conservationists. But I agree with Twitch and Undertow; human suffering and injustice will always come before animals in my book. And I come from a tradition where animals are respected, revered, and honored for the sacrifices that they make to sustain us
Just my two cents. I hope it wasn't too political.

 

[Rooster]

If you think animals can't be wiped out, look up the passenger pigeon.

That is too bad although I don't personally have any feelings of guilt for their demise.They sure would have been fun to hunt!

Maybe if buffalo hadn't been hunted so much, we could have more buffalo herds and less beef herds. Buffalo is a far better meat.

We can raise and eat all the buff we want, it's a matter of economics why we don't. They are far more expensive to keep. They have a horrible habit of walking through fences.lol

reduction of wolves in the great plains and forests leading to high deer populations, etc.

I for one would rather have too many deer and no wolves in Iowa. We are having a deer over population problem of deer at the moment. The DNR has a handle on the problem with starting bow hunting in town and issueing multiple tags for hunters to keep the population under control. No wolves for me thanks....
We have started to have a Mountain Lion problem here in Iowa in the past few years. Having a flock of sheep and several hundred prize winning chickens I'm a little concerned over this. If it shows it's self on my farm it will take a .308 and then be promptly buried in a deep hole. I don't care to have predators of wolf or mountain lion size where I live. The old timers wiped them out for a reason, a wise reason in my opinion.

As for more exploration of the sea, one of the theories on why we are seeing creatures like the giant squids more frequently is that they are running out of food. We have fished out the oceans to such a degree that they are coming out of the depths to find what scarce food is left.

I agree this is a problem that will need addressed soon.
Humans will always suffer because of lack of education which creates poverty.

 

[cookie]

The Aussie White Whale - "Migaloo"

Probably more or less the case, although I wouldn't be suprised if the whale was 130+ years old. Some creatures of this earth are quite timeless.

Anyone ever read Moby Dick? After I read that book, I really began to appreciate whales' intelligence and cunning, as well as their longevity.

This might surprise Loungers but at the moment in Australia there is a white humpback whale that migrates around the Pacific and pops up every few years - it's called Migaloo

http://www.migaloowhale.org/

 

[Ben]

That is too bad although I don't personally have any feelings of guilt for their demise.They sure would have been fun to hunt!

This makes me think that there is no point in responding, but this

I agree this is a problem that will need addressed soon.
Humans will always suffer because of lack of education which creates poverty.

makes hope spring eternal, so I will try again.

What I am asking you, Rooster, and everyone else, to do is to think beyond your farm.

I mentioned the buffalo because someone said that they were shot from trains and still survived. My point is, they didn't survive without our stewardship of the land.

Wolves are hunted out, maybe that is good for the farmers. But, DDT was good for farmers and almost wiped out the bald eagle. Is that okay with you, or should we search for alternatives?

Personally, if just for the sake of the dinner plate alone, I want to live in a world wherre there are more animals than just chickens.

Farms are actually a great example of the point I am trying to make. Corporate farming and designed seeds that are mules can actually prouce food more cheaply and efficiently than small family farms. And farms in other countries, especially once they get ahold of our technology can do it cheaper still.

Should we let small, independent farms go the way of the passenger pigeon? Oh well, they're endangered, but that's just too bad?

The risks of monoculture and the security of the food supply are strong arguments against this. But so is the fact that it might be nice to have more than one variety of chicken out there. So is the fact that there is knowledge that thos esmall farmers have that is hard to find any where else. So is the fact there is a place to go and see what it's like to do things different. Not only because we need it, but because there is something inherently good about the fact that that variety exists.

We lose something when we lost a 200-year-old farm, a 200-year-old tree, or even a 200-year-old whale. Even when we don't see it directly.

 

[Undertow]

This might surprise Loungers but at the moment in Australia there is a white humpback whale that migrates around the Pacific and pops up every few years - it's called Migaloo

http://www.migaloowhale.org/

Does he have a huge hump, bigger than normal whales? Does he have the harpoons of past whalers sticking out of him like insect stings? Does he often overturn vessels and eat the men alive? Did the heavy metal band Mastodon write an album relating his tale?

 

[60Years2Late]

Obviously, by picking a solitary comment in my post, you make it look like I don't know how it stopped. I applaud your efforts at defending your point of view, but my point still stands. Hunting is part of our nature, being as we're a tid bit higher on the chain. I find it appauling that I'm limited in what I can do, just because some endangered species is lurking out there. And I never once said, not a single time, that animals cannot go extinct. As a matter of fact, one of the first things I stated was that they have been going extinct long before we touched this earth, and they will continue to do so long after we're gone. And I'm assuming by the way you talk, you don't subscribe to the whole "the earth is our dominion" theory. So, let me put it to you this way. We as a species cannot limit ourselves for the sake of another species. Our primary concern should be our species and our species alone. Everything else is just background.
And in my eyes, the pyramids of Giza are a little different than the whales. I can't eat the pyramids of Giza.

EDIT: Oh, and that "Tree Hugging Hippy" Teddy Roosevelt was also an avid big game hunter, something that the real tree-hugging-hippies would pitch a fit over.