1938: Length of Ties

[SteveN]

Gentlemen,

I was just looking through the 1938 Sears catalogue posted in the 'sticky' section (what a great resource BTW), and noticed this page illustrating two men in shirtsleeves and ties:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hab3045/2396529747/in/set-72157604410984660/

notice the length of the ties! There's clearly a gap between the end of the tie and the start of the pants.

I was always taught that the tie should be tied such that the end was (ideally) midline of the belt.

Is the catalog picture 'period correct'? Obviously the ties themselves would have been much shorter then, due to the higher waistline of the pants, but even with that, they appeared to be tied to a different length as well.

Cheers,
- SteveN

 

[Dinerman]

That's the way it was done.

 

[Slim Portly]

That's the way it was done.

Exactly. Watch movies from that era and you will sometimes see ties that terminate just past the half-way point between neck and belt.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I've no idea whether that's how it was done then or not (i weren't there) but from my reading around 1930s/40s menswear i get the feeling that the obsession with sillinesses like "how long, to the inch with respect to the belt buckle, should ties be?" is rather modern "style" forum-type anality. (read: made up; fabricated; not true; no basis)

This obsession with "rules" become overwhelming.

 

[anon`]

I've no idea whether that's how it was done then or not (i weren't there) but from my reading around 1930s/40s menswear i get the feeling that the obsession with sillinesses like "how long, to the inch with respect to the belt buckle, should ties be?" is rather modern "style" forum-type anality. (read: made up; fabricated; not true; no basis)

This obsession with "rules" become overwhelming.

+1

I would also add an observation I've made: given that the waistcoat appears to have still been quite popular in the '30s, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to fuss over whether the tie reached your trousers or not; the whole thing would be covered up anyway. And as we all know, few things look as silly (as much then as now, I'd wager) as a tie peeking out from under a waistcoat!

 

[Dr Doran]

few things look as silly (as much then as now, I'd wager) as a tie peeking out from under a waistcoat!

Can look phallic in a very nasty, ugly, gross way. As well as silly.

 

[reetpleat]

It was typical for a man to wear a jacket most or all of the time, so length was not as big an issue. Besides that, not much longer before then, neckwear was not standard at all and could be any number of different things around the neck, and the type that went around the neck and ended about six inches below was still used up through the end of the century I think. So, ties this short would not necessarily be out of line.

 

[John in Covina]

The shorter tie is much more common place back then as seen in many photos and films of the time. I'd guess as said above waistcoats / vests AND Double Breasted suits did not require a long tie to fill the bill.

The really long ties I seem to recall are more the late 50's maybe early 60's trend going into the later decades of the last century. Sometimes they appeared to be going past the belt even when the pants waist was set lower than in the past.

Let's not forget the 70's with ties wide enough to be bibs.

 

[tonyb]

I've come into several 1930s and '40s (presumably) neckties. (Real nice ones, too, but that's another thread.) They are generally shorter than their more recently made counterparts. Significantly so, in some cases. So I either wear 'em with vests or tie 'em in such a way that the visible ends extend as far as I can make 'em extend down my 6-foot frame, which sometimes leaves a quite short short end. But I call it good.

 

[carter]

Avoiding a fashion faux pas?

few things look as silly (as much then as now, I'd wager) as a tie peeking out from under a waistcoat!

Can look phallic in a very nasty, ugly, gross way. As well as silly.

slightly fftopic:
Gentlemen, What is your opinion of the current trend of wearing one's shirt untucked beneath a buttoned vest or waistcoat?

Is it done to keep ones undergarment from exposure because the wearer is about to lose their trousers?

 

[donCarlos]

But don´t forget that pants had much hogher waist back then. So even a very short tie could reach the buckle. But what happens when you wear vintage ties with modern pants? People who notice tell you that you have short tie - of course it´s pointless to correct them, it´s better to cover it by a waistcoat

 

[tonyb]

But don´t forget that pants had much hogher waist back then. So even a very short tie could reach the buckle. But what happens when you wear vintage ties with modern pants? People who notice tell you that you have short tie - of course it´s pointless to correct them, it´s better to cover it by a waistcoat

Yes, there's that, too. I have but three pairs of genuine vintage high-waisted pants, but man, they do indeed reach much higher than anything else in my closet.

As I've gotten more familiar with "Golden Era" styles, I've come to the view that these days ties are often (usually?) worn too long.

 

[normanpitkin]

but!

however,from a textile man's point of view ,I can state that ties in those days were made on different looms which could only go up to a certain width.Only with the advent of newer looms, post ww2, were longer ties possible.sorry for the pedantry!

 

[anon`]

slightly fftopic:
Gentlemen, What is your opinion of the current trend of wearing one's shirt untucked beneath a buttoned vest or waistcoat?

Is it done to keep ones undergarment from exposure because the wearer is about to lose their trousers?

An amusing possibility! I can't say that I've given it all that much thought, though I do always wonder about it when they're otherwise well put-together. I find it very odd that they somehow forgot to tuck their shirt in

however,from a textile man's point of view ,I can state that ties in those days were made on different looms which could only go up to a certain width.Only with the advent of newer looms, post ww2, were longer ties possible.sorry for the pedantry!

Far be it from me to dispute anything about looms of the '30s, but I have come across a very few '30s-vintage ties that are markedly longer than most. Not sure how they were made (perhaps they are made from two pieces of fabric stitched together?) but they do appear to have existed.

I've heard of sized bow ties from the era; perhaps long ties came in sizes as well?

 

[Dinerman]

Far be it from me to dispute anything about looms of the '30s, but I have come across a very few '30s-vintage ties that are markedly longer than most. Not sure how they were made (perhaps they are made from two pieces of fabric stitched together?) but they do appear to have existed.

Let's see them.

 

[Feraud]

Regarding the issue of looms and tie length, what's the deal? Were looms incapable of producing ties over a certain length?
My current thoughts run that the length of ties were (and are) more dependent on fashion trends than technological limitations.
Someone please enlighten me!

 

[Trotsky]

Regarding the issue of looms and tie length, what's the deal? Were looms incapable of producing ties over a certain length?
My current thoughts run that the length of ties were (and are) more dependent on fashion trends than technological limitations.
Someone please enlighten me!

I would say no. The Necktie is an evolution of the bow tie, it kept getting longer and by the mid/late-19th century the neck tie we know today was developing and it was never very long. It was designed to go along with the vest, which was always worn and rarely taken off in polite company. Long ties came with lower rise trousers, the 1960s?. The HUGE knots and wild polyester of the '70s was, I would believe, the true birth of the current necktie, at least length wise.

This is all speculation, of course. And I always tie my ties short.

 

[tonyb]

As an aside ...

This thread exemplifies what's so good about this joint -- people who know little can pose what might seem naive questions without fear they'll be ridiculed for their ignorance. People with something of value to offer do so in a helpful manner. A person even apologizes for offering something he fears might carry the slightest whiff of pedantry, even if it would take a much more powerful nose than mine to detect it.

Lately I've gotten into vintage ties. (Doesn't hurt that I've located a coupla-three reliable sources of nice ones at reasonable prices.) Unlike hats, they don't threaten to overwhelm our living quarters.

 

[Dr Doran]

Not sure how they were made (perhaps they are made from two pieces of fabric stitched together?) but they do appear to have existed.

I believe I have at least one 1930s tie like that.

But no, I don't want to photograph it because photobucket leaves me suicidal, it's so horribly slow. I only post photos of humungous importance (like my latest haircut).

 

[reetpleat]

many ties are actually two pieces stitched together around the neck area. maybe that is only sixties ones. I don't remember.