1932 again?

[skwerl-hat]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...his-really-is-starting-to-feel-like-1932.html

Financially we are in 1932 next broad brimmed fedoras will come back in style!:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[LizzieMaine]

I dunno -- unemployment is still a good bit below 25 percent, most banks are still healthy, and the Government hasn't rolled tanks thru the streets of Washington while it gasses unemployed veterans, so I'd think we've still got a ways to go before we hit 1932.

Plus the movies are nowhere near as good.

 

[Fletch]

1932 is a ways off.

Read William Manchester's The Glory and the Dream sometime. It's an American cultural history that starts in '32, and for a reason. Manchester regarded it as a low point in the spirit of a great nation.

A few thing he mentioned about 1932 that just are not true in 2010:

- Something like 60% of those still employed were working only part-time, earning only a fraction of wages and salaries already cut and often cut again.

- The national safety net existed in only a limited way, with just a few hundred millions voted for banks and financial institutions. For families, the states and the nation had literally nothing. Almost every unemployed family was dependent on private charity, and this was badly strapped. In many places only the most basic food could be distributed, and sometimes, not even that.

- The number of homeless children - just children - on the streets of New York City that year was estimated at over 1 million.

- Industry and sales had not just taken a long slow dive, but in many cases, had completely stopped. There is usually a new house or building going up somewhere in 2010, or a new factory opening - unimaginable to the people of 1932. Manchester remembered that even painting a house was unusual that year.

- The national morés were socially and religiously conservative to a degree hard to imagine today - or even during the New Deal years of the late 30s. There was suffering everywhere you looked, yet the reform and populist sentiments of the Progressive Era had been beaten down so soundly by the radically pro-business ethos of the '20s that it took a presidential campaign to call them to life again. Most everywhere you went in 1932, any organization on the part of the unemployed - or even on their behalf - was considered creeping communism and met with severe repercussions. It wasn't entirely without reason, either. Few outside the Stalinist sphere of influence even believed in organized action. See below for a notable exception.

- Consider the Bonus March on Washington that summer - in which regular U.S. Army units opened live fire on their brothers in arms - U.S. veterans of WW1 - for being encamped in the capital and demonstrating for the immediate payment of their service bonuses.

So it's nowhere near 1932 in 2010. We are not nearly, most of us, as desperate merely to survive. Life goes on, for most people in most places, more or less as usual in 2010. In 1932 every bit of life-as-usual was a precious gift - and even for those with a modicum of comfort in their circumstances, one they could hardly enjoy without a sense of foreboding or guilt.

I will always remember my grandfather, then a newly married man, saying that in those years the one little bit of peace and pleasure he could count on was one 5c ice cream cone - which he always ate on the way home from the newspaper office, where he sat all day in broiling Iowa heat waiting for ad buyers who never came and a phone that never rang, on the way home to a rented bungalow where he and my grandmother did nothing but sit in darkened rooms, shades pulled against the sun, worried sick about everything including whether their first baby might be on the way. When she came, in '33, they had to give up their little weenie dog because they knew they couldn't feed four.

Just one cone - single dip, probably - all a 30yo man with a business degree and a tempered-steel Protestant work ethic had to look forward to all day, every day. That is as close to understanding life as it was lived in 1932 as I ever want to get.

 

[Wally_Hood]

Thank you, Fletch, for that powerful piece of writing. Your article is better than something we might read in a newspaper or magazine.

 

[Fletch]

Yeah, well, try to sell anything to a newspaper or magazine these days that isn't pure boilerplate. The print media are surviving, but sometimes you wonder how.

 

[Amy Jeanne]

I dunno -- unemployment is still a good bit below 25 percent, most banks are still healthy, and the Government hasn't rolled tanks thru the streets of Washington while it gasses unemployed veterans, so I'd think we've still got a ways to go before we hit 1932.

Plus the movies are nowhere near as good.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap
One of my pet peeves is people who compare today to the 1930s Depression. Puh-leez.

And yes, the movies were brilliant in '32, weren't they?

 

[skwerl-hat]

I knew if i posted that link here i would hear some interesting things . Keep them coming! How many people do you know even with the economy bad who are straving? none in my case. Prosperity is a relative thing i guess.

 

[Fletch]

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap
One of my pet peeves is people who compare today to the 1930s Depression. Puh-leez.

And yes, the movies were brilliant in '32, weren't they?

No better than the music!

 

[barracudamagoo]

I'm a newbie here, but I hope you don't mind me chiming in. (Note: I read the post about politics and I don't think my comments will violate it; however, if they do someone please give me the heads-up and I will edit/delete my post.

Do I think it is as bad as the depression? No; at least not yet. We don't have people in the streets starving because of social welfare programs; however, at the same time many of those programs have us in the red (or their surplus has gone to fund other spending that was in the red). This not only is seen at the level of federal and most state governments, but also in the family home. Can't affored groceries this week, put it on the credit card, can't get that new car/house/flat screen/ad nuaseum, put it on the credit card. We as a country and a society are in debt.

Now I'm not going to get too nutty and say China will want to dump all their bonds; they need us as much as we need them. Although I am nutty enough to say I think we are on the brink, and if we don't tighten our own belts our majority bond holders (China, Japan, and other foreign investors) might start getting scared.

 

[SGT Rocket]

Pickle

It's not 1932 yet. But, the US and the world is in a pickle.

It is interesting that we are still calling this a recession. I know there are many definitions to "recession" or "depression," but it sure feels like a depression to me. I've been out of work since May of 2007, except for some Army National Guard deployments and stuff like that. I'm even going back to school and trying to start my own business. It's been really rough for my family.

Maybe a recession is when you have a job and your neighbor doesn't. And, a depression is when you don't have a job and your neighbor does? [huh]

 

[dhermann1]

I just finished a fascinating book titled "The Democratic Roosevelt" by Rex Tugwell, of of FDR's brains trusters. Fletch tho everything you said is eminently correct, there are still parallels that are uncanny.
Ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."

 

[Chas]

When was the last time anybody saw a soupline? Hordes of people riding the rails?

 

[dhermann1]

Point well taken. Or people swarming all over garbage dumps, just to find food. Or thinking nothing of a man coming to your back door to beg a meal, and receive it without question.

 

[LizzieMaine]

We also don't yet see restaurants packing their leftovers in five gallon pails labeled EDIBLE SWILL, which are picked up by the Salvation Army to be doled out by the cupful to the unemployed.

 

[Story]

We also don't yet see restaurants packing their leftovers in five gallon pails labeled EDIBLE SWILL .

Sounds like a McDonald's Happy Meal (TM)

 

[Mav]

We also don't yet see restaurants packing their leftovers in five gallon pails labeled EDIBLE SWILL, which are picked up by the Salvation Army to be doled out by the cupful to the unemployed.

Yet.
I'm in agreement with SlyGI- having been out of full time employment since 9/08, looking for work and knowing that hiring is almost non- existent, it feels like a depression to me, as well. This is subjective- if you aren't there, you have no idea how desperate many formerly working Americans are. You may, eventually.
Most of my immediate neighborhood is out of work, and most of us are college educated professionals in our 40's and 50's. It's not pretty. And, no...Home Depot isn't hiring forklift drivers, and McDonalds doesn't need fry cooks. Already tried that.

And...it's somewhat similar to '32, at least as far as the double- dip form this "recession" has taken, and the reaction to it. Better social "safety nets," perhaps, but history is largely repeating itself. As it does.

 

[Andykev]

It is a quality of life question.

Back in 1932 we still had a Government that did not think it was the answer to everyone's problem.

Today, we have generous credit (somewhat reduced), but there are many who have not noticed any issues with the economy, save their portfolio has gone down.

As far as "quality of life" issues, I feel we are basically the same as in years prior. However, the generation of 1932 had simpler tastes and expectations: we have the current generation who largely want everything today, fast, cheap, and easy.

Whole different generation. Not bad, maybe, just different. We have so, so much more today than anyone ever dreamed of back in 1932.

We DO IMHO need to go back to some simpler times, less hectic and more in tune with family, religion, community, and friends. Simple things that don't cost money.

Like when I was growing up, ALL businesses were closed on Sunday. How I do miss that.

And how often today, do folks plan an afternoon picnic, instead of going to some mall to spend money, or spend the day in front of the T.V.?

 

[Paisley]

Like when I was growing up, ALL businesses were closed on Sunday. How I do miss that.

It's a bummer if you work long hours and don't have someone else to do the shopping.

 

[Lady Day]

I'm in agreement with SlyGI- having been out of full time employment since 9/08, looking for work and knowing that hiring is almost non- existent, it feels like a depression to me, as well....And, no...Home Depot isn't hiring forklift drivers, and McDonalds doesn't need fry cooks. Already tried that.

I hear you on that one. Same for me, only I feel I haven't even *begun* to start my career, because when I got out of school, the layoffs were happening. SO I was stuck in whatever I could get job wise still sending out resumes for what I went to school for, with no luck.

Now I think when things do turn around Im going to be too old to get an entry level position anywhere.

Depression or not, it sure is depressing.

LD

 

[Lady Day]

Back in 1932 we still had a Government that did not think it was the answer to everyone's problem.

Today, we have generous credit (somewhat reduced), but there are many who have not noticed any issues with the economy, save their portfolio has gone down.

There was generous credit in the 30s as well, only then you could actually get something for it, not be penalized for one mistake and then have penalties so high you are in a lot of senses forced to default. Today you go from a 7% interest rate for 5 years to 30% in one month because you were late on a single payment and see how well you keep up.

But that seems to be okay because its all the person's fault, right. No ill will on the company who writes contracts the laymen cant read, or who writes in clauses allowing them to change contracts without notice. Its all the individual's fault, right?

As far as "quality of life" issues, I feel we are basically the same as in years prior. However, the generation of 1932 had simpler tastes and expectations: we have the current generation who largely want everything today, fast, cheap, and easy.

I dont think things were 'simpler' more like basic. You woke up, worked, had a beer, went to bed. The notion of getting an education and becoming a doctor, or lawyer was a fairly tale to the working man, not today.

We DO IMHO need to go back to some simpler times, less hectic and more in tune with family, religion, community, and friends. Simple things that don't cost money.

Like when I was growing up, ALL businesses were closed on Sunday. How I do miss that.

Most business are open on sunday to account for inflation and a large demographic of people who are not religious (or Christian) who treat Sunday as another day of the week. Its business.

And how often today, do folks plan an afternoon picnic, instead of going to some mall to spend money, or spend the day in front of the T.V.?

House poor people.

LD