1930s German Sport Suit w/ knickers

[Fastuni]

Ha. Lot's of 1930-40's related stuff is being advertised in Germany as either 1920's (which is quite a fad right now) or 1950's.
I figure it is in part to shun the "touchy period".

 

[Big J]

Ha. Lot's of 1930-40's related stuff is being advertised in Germany as either 1920's (which is quite a fad right now) or 1950's.
I figure it is in part to shun the "touchy period".

There's nothing wrong (IMHO) with Germans today not being enamored with the clothes of the Nazi era (whether due to the symbolism implied in the clothes, or a distaste for the way in which they were produced). It's a difficult period in time fashion-wise (Hugo Boss, any one?), and for me these associations are the reason I don't drive a Mercedes or a VW (just to give a simple example- I know it goes deeper than that).

The point is that Germans shouldn't feel coy about their reasons for rejecting the clothes of the era (if they chose to do so), I for one, do not blame the regular German guy or girl of today for their country's history (stones and glass houses, and all that), and they should be able to reject the era with no sense that they are not being apologetic enough.

Since FL is for lovers of the Golden Era, we could (and why don't we?) just look at this from a sartorial point of view, and ask;
'Are there any designs or design features of German civilian clothes from the Nazi era that are unique?'

If the answer is 'Yes', then we should just judge those clothes on any merits they may have, and we can ignore ideology safely.
If the answer is 'No', then maybe we can just wear the clothes if we want, or choose something with the same features from a different source.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Since FL is for lovers of the Golden Era, we could (and why don't we?) just look at this from a sartorial point of view, and ask;
'Are there any designs or design features of German civilian clothes from the Nazi era that are unique?'

Well there are a few things (scalloped yokes, bunny ear suspender thingies) but I think these questions wouldn't bring me to the same conclusion.
I would ask: Do these things remind me of Nazi fashion or 30s fashion general? Breeches and long black coats are clichees but I avoid them. Everything else looks like european 30s clothes from the outside. If it is tweed people might even say it looks british. Haha.

The ADEFA is like an union tag. There were no other unions because they forbid them. It doesn't say the clothes were worn by a NASDAP party member. You can hardly know that except it's written on a tailors label or something (never seen that)

 

[Mario]

BTW: Someone just recently officially re-registered the ADEFA name and tag (including the logo!). Can't find the copy of the application I made right now, though.

 

[Papperskatt]

I don't know, HBK. Papperskatt wrote that it was relisted for the second time.

Here's the (I think, at least the first one that I've seen) original listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191174324014?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
It then got relisted by the same seller. I don't know why, maybe due to non-payment or size error or something. That listing got canceled after a few days: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191232643405?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

It's now sold by another seller. The measurements appear to be the same.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

And one shouldn't think that garments without this label are not connected to the political background of this period.

One has to keep in mind: Jews were a very significant part of German textile industry, trade and retail - also many tailor business were Jewish... after 1933 they were forced out and their business "aryanized".

Just one example: the "Grumach Brothers" was one of the largest textile wholesale business in greater Berlin. Their stuff (including suits, shirts, ties, hats etc.) was sold by countless retailers in and around Berlin - often even not tagged as "Grumach". The Grumachs were Jews, and in November 1938 their business was expropriated and became the German-owned "Woltex".
One of the Grumach brothers, Max, originally a lawyer who entered the family business in 1933 after being evicted from his original job, committed suicide in November 1938 by throwing himself in front of a Berlin subway.

Then there is the whole issue of articles produced by forced labor during wartime... or stuff sold by department stores that were "aryanized". Etc. etc.

Of course the ADEFA tag has a specific blatant symbolism - I understand if some people don't want to wear it.

It also gets into murky territory when you consider that the SS themselves, in addition to their internal security and military roles, amassed quite a substantial economic empire (stemming from Himmler's rivalry with Goering) in which scores of companies (including many of the "aryanized" ones) were wholly owned and operated by them with the notorious sigrunes not appearing anywhere in the company logo or trademark.

 

[Edward]

BTW: Someone just recently officially re-registered the ADEFA name and tag (including the logo!). Can't find the copy of the application I made right now, though.

Where did they register / where are they from? I can imagine that happening in SE Asia (I've seen Chinese kids wearing SS eagles and the likes on t-shirts; similar to the 80s fashion in some parts of the West for Imperial Japanese battle flag imagery to Chinese eyes, I should imagine...) where the Nazi Thing isn't such a big impact on their particular history. I'd be very surprised if any government in Europe actually permitted it, though. Depends how the law works locally - if memory serves, at least in the UK you can be turned down for TM registation on "taste and decency" type grounds. [huh] I have some hazy notion the EU RTMs are the same, but it's not an area in which I'm active.

 

[Fastuni]

No a German guy tried to register the old Adefa-Eagle in 2012. It was rejected twice... the last time after a complaint.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Wow, this thread turned quite philosophical! Personally, the ADEFA tag doesn't really bother me. It's simply a reality of that time. Although, as Floey insightfully noted, it does serve to remind us that the Jeeves & Wooster image of "the Golden Era" just that, a cartoonish fiction. The way I look at it, if you are captivated by bygone eras, you have to take your interest with a healthy grain of salt and understand things within the context of their times. I imagine, lots of manufactures who otherwise despised the Nazis affixed ADEFA tags to their products solely for the expedience of avoiding government persecution.

As lover of classic cars, it would be hard for me, a Jewish person, to appreciate Henry Ford's cars knowing that he was a disgusting, unabashed anti-Semite without reconciling his being begin a ba***rd with the fact that I like his automotive designs. Appreciating the '36 Ford Coupe (or a suit with an ADEFA tag) doesn't me you accept the malignant context.

 

[Fastuni]

To clarify a bit on ADEFA:

First the time-frame: It was founded in 1933, the D denoting ¨Deutsch/German¨, from 1934-38 it was changed to ¨Deutsch-Arisch/German-Aryan¨,
then back to ¨German¨ and in August 1939 ADEFA was dissolved, when the last Jewish businesses were ¨aryanized¨.

The great majority of garments from 1930s Germany was not ADEFA.

A great portion of mens suits i.e. were made by bespoke artisan tailors (much more than in the US). They had only their tailoring label or no label at all.

ADEFA was only for ¨Konfektion¨ (factory produced clothing). Entry into ADEFA was not mandatory - and not very successful in gaining membership. 1938 around 500 companies making men´s and women´s garments were members.

The requirements for the ADEFA tag were rather hard to attain for German companies: no Jewish business partners and no Jews working in the company, as all workers had to be part of the DAF (German labor front), which accepted no Jews.
As there were still numerous Jewish workers/employees and also Jewish-owned businesses working until 1939, many German companies (including very large and known ones) could not meet the requirements.

An official from the US State Dept. estimated in late 1937 that around 25% of German textile produce was still done with Jewish labor/businesses. The ¨black number¨ was probably higher, with companies either employing Jewish ¨black labor¨ or not revealing their Jewish suppliers.

In any case I think it is safe to say that the companies voluntarily joining ADEFA were not doing so in order to avoid trouble.

 

[herringbonekid]

thanks for the info Fastuni.

 

[Guttersnipe]

To clarify a bit on ADEFA . . .

. . . In any case I think it is safe to say that the companies voluntarily joining ADEFA were not doing so in order to avoid trouble.

Wow, that's fascinating, Fastuni. I've always assumed membership in such trade syndicates was compulsory by coercion if not actual legislation. The former arrangement was Nazi Germany's modus operandi in economic relationships with its neighbors whether they were occupied puppet states, neutral countries, or even allies such as Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Finland, etc. Thanks for the education!

 

[cpdv]

Funny, less cumpulsory than the NRA in the USA...

 

[Fastuni]

Even leaving out the obvious ideological difference of purpose between ADEFA and NRA, they can't be seen as direct equivalents.

German industry and handcrafting had it's coercive structures.
All branches of industry were part of the "Reichsverbände" (Reich syndicates).
All artisan handcrafting, such as tailoring, was organized in mandatory guilds - "Innungen" under the supreme "Reichsinnung" (Reich guild).
All (German) workers were forced to be part of the Deutsche Arbeitsfront (German labor front).

ADEFA was an "action group" under the "Reich syndicate of clothing industry", which should put pressure on companies to break their contacts with Jewish business partners and suppliers and remove their Jewish employees.

The ADEFA label was intended by it's creators as a "badge of honor" (in this it could be compared to the NRA "blue eagle" - although with entirely different ideology), to advertise that a particular company was without Jewish connections amidst an branch of industry (ready to wear clothing) that was widely attacked as being under Jewish dominance.

As written before this "PR and marketing pressure campaign" didn't have the success the creators expected.
Numerous manufacturers, traders and retailers retained their connection to Jews (whether out of sympathy or taking advantage of their situation through getting favorable arrangements) until in 1939 the last Jewish businesses were forcibly expropriated (a gradual process).
After this ADEFA lost it's purpose and was dissolved.

 

[herringbonekid]

did anybody win this auction ?

 

[Two Types]

Sold for $1000. That's a lot of money. The vendor must be happy.

 

[Fastuni]

I don't think any FLounger has bought this. Tiny ADEFA suit... I guess Japan.

 

[Fastuni]

Buyer has zero Feedback... hm, we'll see whether it gets relisted again.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Thanks for the additional info on the ADEFA tag. I learned a lot and realised that I underestimanted the voluntary part. It's even worse.

My guess is Japan too or shill bidding to drive up the price. [huh]
1000 is a lot but still less than bespoke. If it was a better size I wouldn't be THAT surprised. But well...Japan then.

 

[Fastuni]

As I predicted - this suit is again for sale.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alter-30er-...zug-3-teilg-Selten-und-Original-/191306673751