1920s Travel Clothes Advice Request

[MB5]

I am trying to put together an outfit for an American visiting Ireland in the 1920s. Unfortunately a suit is too expensive, so I am trying to find a more casual solution. I was hoping to do something based around a brown corduroy vest and I was going to make a shirt with a band collar to accept a slidewell collar I already have.

Does the start sound at all correct?
What other items and colors would you recommend?

Thank you

 

[Vintage Betty]

I'm sure the gentlemen of the forum would know this answer better than I, but how about a plain V-neck sweater over that shirt? They are still the same as they were in the 1920's.

Vintage Betty

 

[Tourbillion]

The shirt and collar are absolutely perfect (tie or bow-tie?). The corderoy vest is probably ok, but the thought of travelling in Ireland without a raincoat or topcoat is absolutely unthinkable in my opinion. A suit or a sportcoat and slacks would be the most appropriate.

Also, are you sure you can't get a used suit? A 60's 3 button mod suit of a plain wool would look just like a 20's sack suit, and would be relatively inexpensive US$60-100.

Here is Emily Post from 1922:

DRESS ON THE STEAMER

On the de luxe steamers nearly every one dresses for dinner; some actually in ball dresses, which is in worst possible taste, and, like all overdressing in public places, indicates that they have no other place to show their finery. People of position never put on formal evening dress on a steamer, not even in the ?† la carte restaurant, which is a feature of the de luxe steamer of size. In the dining saloon they wear afternoon house dresses‚Äîwithout hats‚Äîfor dinner. In the restaurant they wear semi-dinner dresses. Some smart men on the ordinary steamers put on a dark sack suit for dinner after wearing country clothes all day, but in the de luxe restaurant they wear Tuxedo coats. No gentleman wears a tail-coat on shipboard under any circumstances whatsoever.

She also lists a business suit for gentlemen for travelling. Also the 1920's ladies dress guide from Revamp lists for ladies business, travelling or shopping a lightweight wool or silk suit, or tailored linen, cotton or silk dress (I am assuming the lighter stuff is for shopping, or maybe business). I've also heard that a tailored wool dress is appropriate for ladies to travel in.

Once your 1920's American is in Ireland, country clothes or even sport clothes (sport jacket, plus fours, shirt and or sweater comes to mind) would be appropriate if they aren't in a big city. This unfortunately probably includes a sport coat, it would have been considered vulgar to wander around in your shirt sleeves. The only people who would have done this are lower class workers, who would not be likely to travel to Ireland. It wasn't even considered appropriate to remove your jacket at the office, even in sweltering summers until about 1960.

p.s. Don't forget your hat!!!

 

[MB5]

Do you think this coat would be appropriate? My historic costume book says tweed was popularized by the Prince of Wales, but only gives the range of 1920-1947. I would guess it was before 1936 though.

I'm not sure what I am going to do about the tie. I don't know that any of these work. The top one is probably the oldest, but I don't know what period it is from and there may be too much red.

 

[cookie]

A suggestion

John Wayne in Ryan's Daughter? Another is The Canadian guy who plays an Irishman in Eye of the Needle.

 

[Tourbillion]

The jacket is okay, it reminds me of my great-grandfather here. His jacket is really long though, this seems odd to me, since I think of 20's jackets as being shorter. So flannel slacks??

The first tie is not too red, though it doesn't scream 20's to me (nice tie btw). The bowtie does seem 20's, though. It would look good with a vest.

I have a hard time visualizing them in color, but they seem really conservative to me. Dark solids, patterned solids, stripes, paisley and foulard prints mostly.

 

[J. M. Stovall]

It wasn't even considered appropriate to remove your jacket at the office, even in sweltering summers until about 1960.

I guess it depends on your job, or maybe Disney animators were considered lower class workers .

1941

1952

 

[MB5]

Cookie, I will try to find those movies.

Tourbillion, I do have plain white and black neckties if those would be more appropriate, but they do have a sheen to them.

So at this point it appears I need to look for:
Flannel Slacks
Vest or Sweater

I am open to color suggestions as this is way out of my league.
A few notes: My shoes will probably be brown and my only hat is green, so that restricts things a bit.

Brown vest/sweater and green pants?

 

[Tourbillion]

J.M.

Your photos are from the 40's and 50's, by that time things had changed a lot, although three of them in the first photo are wearing jackets.

Still, the Disney animators you showed are "creative" types and they got more leeway. Although, I have a book with photos of hundreds of artists from the 20's and 30's and most of them wore suits and ties in public, and only wore sportswear in the studio or for sports.

He's asking about the 20's, it was a different era. Business men like bank managers wore frock coats. It wasn't unusual to wear morning dress in the office, although a sack suit was probably more common. The old Victorian and Edwardian rules about proper dress were only just beginning to be broken. It was pretty scandalous really. Plus Ireland can be pretty cold and the guy would have needed a jacket or top coat. His jacket in the photo would be considered sportswear, like the equivalent of a sweat jacket today.

Seriously do you visit Northern Europe without a jacket even today? I wouldn't even consider going to Ireland even in summer without at least a rain coat even for a casual tourist/backpack type visit.

However, the "rules" were different for different people of different classes. Prepubescent boys could wear shorts and probably even t-shirts just about everywhere in the 20's unless it was a "jacket required" area. Still college students would probably still be wearing suits to school. A farmer could go to town in a shirt and overalls, but he wouldn't be allowed in a nice restaurant. Still if one were going to travel especially on a pleasure trip to somewhere like Europe they would have brought at least one suit. (More likely a trunk full and full dress, and a tuxedo)


I am sure the folks in Disney accounting had their suits, shirts and ties. This was standard business attire everywhere. Yes, there were people that broke the rules, we call them "Americans". Emily Post would not have mentioned to only wear sports wear for sports and country clothes in the country if the rule hadn't been broken, but the fact that she mentions it in her 20's guide means that it wasn't acceptable yet.

If he'd asked about 30's or 40's my answer would have been very different, although I don't think it would have been common to travel to Europe without a suit until after the war.

 

[Tomasso]

Do you think this coat would be appropriate? ....tweed was popularized by the Prince of Wales.

There's no suiting more Irish than tweed and it was being worn decades before the PoW was even born. BTW, wool ties work well with tweed.

 

[J. M. Stovall]

It's just you said "It wasn't even considered appropriate to remove your jacket at the office, even in sweltering summers until about 1960. " That's what my reply was about.

Otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered being "funny". I think it was pretty obvious I wasn't giving advice about traveling by rail in 1920.

J.M.

Your photos are from the 40's and 50's, by that time things had changed a lot, although three of them in the first photo are wearing jackets.

Still, the Disney animators you showed are "creative" types and they got more leeway. Although, I have a book with photos of hundreds of artists from the 20's and 30's and most of them wore suits and ties in public, and only wore sportswear in the studio or for sports.

He's asking about the 20's, it was a different era. Business men like bank managers wore frock coats. It wasn't unusual to wear morning dress in the office, although a sack suit was probably more common. The old Victorian and Edwardian rules about proper dress were only just beginning to be broken. It was pretty scandalous really. Plus Ireland can be pretty cold and the guy would have needed a jacket or top coat. His jacket in the photo would be considered sportswear, like the equivalent of a sweat jacket today.

Seriously do you visit Northern Europe without a jacket even today? I wouldn't even consider going to Ireland even in summer without at least a rain coat even for a casual tourist/backpack type visit.

However, the "rules" were different for different people of different classes. Prepubescent boys could wear shorts and probably even t-shirts just about everywhere in the 20's unless it was a "jacket required" area. Still college students would probably still be wearing suits to school. A farmer could go to town in a shirt and overalls, but he wouldn't be allowed in a nice restaurant. Still if one were going to travel especially on a pleasure trip to somewhere like Europe they would have brought at least one suit. (More likely a trunk full and full dress, and a tuxedo)


I am sure the folks in Disney accounting had their suits, shirts and ties. This was standard business attire everywhere. Yes, there were people that broke the rules, we call them "Americans". Emily Post would not have mentioned to only wear sports wear for sports and country clothes in the country if the rule hadn't been broken, but the fact that she mentions it in her 20's guide means that it wasn't acceptable yet.

If he'd asked about 30's or 40's my answer would have been very different, although I don't think it would have been common to travel to Europe without a suit until after the war.

 

[Kodiak]

MB- depends on the sort of traveler you are talking about. I'll admit that I didn't read the whole thread, but... for example...

Richard Halliburton traveled around in the 20s. I have a suit of clothes sort of along those lines, the more adventurer look, and I just wear a pair of corduroy trousers, ankle boots, a grey Ivy cap and button down shirt. Any old shirt will do I'd say, unless you want to look perfectly authentic. Since you have a vest, I'd suggest trying to find a nice overcoat.

Having just come back from Dublin less than a month ago, another thing you need to consider is the season you will be traveling in. When I was there, it was a tad bit chilly but in a sweater I was very comfortable. Of course, my Ivy is wool so that didn't hurt anything.

If you are a business or aristocrat-style traveler on the other hand... I can't help you one bit...

Hope this helped,
-K

 

[MB5]

What type of overcoat? When I hear that I think wool, but it appears there are other materials that qualify.

I did find one that is similar to the Penguin Truemans Trophey Corduroy Overcoat, but again I worry it is too modern.

http://www.penguinclothing.com/16FR0132-212-penguin.html