1920s suits

[Rudie]

Thanks for the explanation. Makes it very difficult to judge if the garment might fit without actually trying it on.

 

[herringbonekid]

not really... i can wear a 17.5" shoulder mid 30s jacket or a 16" early 20s narrow shoulder.
both 'fit' in their different ways. just depends what style you're going for.


p.s. the angle of armhole isn't the only difference between the shoulders mentioned on the last page of course.
the 30s shoulder has much more padding, sleeve-head wadding. the 20s shoulder is much 'softer' and has virtually none.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Yes, the 1930s shoulder is an example of building on the foundation provided by the shoulder, whereas the 20s narrow shoulder is literally just covering the shoulder and maybe providing minimal shaping while retaining the natural shape.

A strained analogy is catwalk shows. The reason designers like rake thin models is because they can then build pretty much whatever they want on top of the body. With a "normal" shaped person, the range of things the designer can create is necessarily limited. The 30s padded wider shoulder is an example of such creation of shape, whereas the late teens and 20s, with their cult of youth, wanted to highlight the natural shape of the shoulder, and so narrower & less padded.

 

[volvomeister13]

When attempting a narrow shoulder today, many designers seem merely to go with less padding, although I think the 1920's way of doing it (with less padding AND more of the shoulder in the sleevehead as opposed to the body of the suit) is a much better look.

A lot of loungers have posted photos of custom suits done with shoulders more in the 1930's to 40's style that look really good, but I haven't been able to dig up any reference of any 1920's style new custom suits. The 1930's-40's shoulder seam style is arguably more similar to what is common today. I wonder if anyone has had any experience getting 1920's-shouldered jackets made.

 

[Guttersnipe]

When attempting a narrow shoulder today, many designers seem merely to go with less padding, although I think the 1920's way of doing it (with less padding AND more of the shoulder in the sleevehead as opposed to the body of the suit) is a much better look.

A lot of loungers have posted photos of custom suits done with shoulders more in the 1930's to 40's style that look really good, but I haven't been able to dig up any reference of any 1920's style new custom suits. The 1930's-40's shoulder seam style is arguably more similar to what is common today. I wonder if anyone has had any experience getting 1920's-shouldered jackets made.

Have a look at the Herringbonekid's blog. Pretty much all the clothes he makes are inspired by '20s cuts.

 

[Tomasso]

I wonder if anyone has had any experience getting 1920's-shouldered jackets made.

I have seen countless bespoke jackets posted on various forums and blogs over the years and I don't recall a single 20s shoulder among them. I don't think it's a style that translates well into modern wear; too costumy.

 

[DamianM]

Not thats its too costumy, No were near actually. Just designers are not paying attention to that detail.

 

[Tomasso]

designers are not paying attention to that detail.

There have been lots of designers showing a 20s shoulder over the last decade, the Japanese (Yamamoto, Miyake, Watanabe, to name a few) in particular. Jill Sander and John Varvatos come to mind as well.

The 20s shoulder is a very unforgiving treatment that requires just the right physique to look good. They round off even the squarest shoulders and they accentuate the size of one's head, neck and girth.

 

[herringbonekid]

I wonder if anyone has had any experience getting 1920's-shouldered jackets made.

these are the two narrowest shoulder jackets i've made:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/herringbonekid/Laurence John Clothes/_1010371.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/herringbonekid/linen_suit_01.jpg

(they look extra narrow on the dummy since there's no wadding - or person's shoulder - to fill out the shoulder area).

When attempting a narrow shoulder today, many designers seem merely to go with less padding...

less padding alone won't give you a narrower shoulder; it will give you a sloping shoulder. to get a narrower shoulder the only way to do it is to bring in the armhole.

I have seen countless bespoke jackets posted on various forums and blogs over the years and I don't recall a single 20s shoulder among them. I don't think it's a style that translates well into modern wear; too costumy.

'costumy' is a term that the modern bespoke crowd apply to virtually ANY clothing that is too period-specific for them. i don't see why the early 20s style is more costumy than any other period. you could argue in fact that because of the slimmer trousers and neat fitting jackets it actually looks more modern than a 30s-40s look.

 

[herringbonekid]

Cullen Landis:

(red arrows are not by me).

 

[Guttersnipe]

'costumy' is a term that the modern bespoke crowd apply to virtually ANY clothing that is too period-specific for them. i don't see why the early 20s style is more costumy than any other period. you could argue in fact that because of the slimmer trousers and neat fitting jackets it actually looks more modern than a 30s-40s look.

Excellent point. I would say that was precisely the thought behind the Brooks Brothers "Great Gatsby" collection released last year. Although, that line really just run of the mill trendy slim cut suits with a few bells'n'whistles tacked on...but to the untrained eye they looked like '20s clothes, I suppose.

 

[DamianM]

There have been lots of designers showing a 20s shoulder over the last decade, the Japanese (Yamamoto, Miyake, Watanabe, to name a few) in particular. Jill Sander and John Varvatos come to mind as well.

The 20s shoulder is a very unforgiving treatment that requires just the right physique to look good. They round off even the squarest shoulders and they accentuate the size of one's head, neck and girth.

You named a lot of Japanese designers, At the moment they are going crazy for every 20s thing.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

^^^ Two excellent examples, hez, of the head size enhancement issue mentioned by A. C. Lyles above.

 

[herringbonekid]

Baron, i don't really see it as a problem unless you've already got very narrow shoulders and a large head, as in the photo of Dinerman's great grandfather on page 60.
after watching all of Harold Lloyd's early 20s films i didn't come away thinking 'wow, he's got a huge head'.

anyway, i would never argue that there's a more flattering overall look than the early 30s classically proportioned one. the early 20s is just something different.

 

[Metatron]

You get that same effect with 1970s shoulders... those narrow shoulders really made people's heads look big. The hairstyles didn't help!

 

[Guttersnipe]

Baron, i don't really see it as a problem unless you've already got very narrow shoulders and a large head, as in the photo of Dinerman's great grandfather on page 60.
after watching all of Harold Lloyd's early 20s films i didn't come away thinking 'wow, he's got a huge head'.

anyway, i would never argue that there's a more flattering overall look than the early 30s classically proportioned one. the early 20s is just something different.

Of course there were different ideal body types over time, and these are displayed in the exaggerated fashion illustrations of the teens, '20s, '30s and '40s. It's always seemed to me that these various silhouettes were proportioned around those body types.

Doesn't' Barron Kurtz call that late-teen - early '20s style the Cult of Youth cut? Narrow shoulders and pants legs to make the head and feet look bigger (like an adolescent who has just hit his growth spurt, but not yet filled out).

. . . whereas the men in 1930's fashion plates often have creepily small feet and wide hips. Were the illustrators trying to accentuate the waisted jackets and wider pants legs I wonder?

 

[herringbonekid]

Guttersnipe, i don't imagine that they were trying to make the heads and feet look bigger. rather, that that was an unintended consequence; likely to happen to the not tall-slim-square-shouldered man. similarly, the straight, dropped waist dresses didn't look quite so great on the average woman than they did in the idealised illustrations.

seems tall and slim was the ideal then as much as it is now going by fashion illustrations such as this:

... the legs are elongated and heads reduced.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Point taken. Tall and slender is generally the ideal. But what then is the point of those exaggerated illustrations, I wonder? I assume they were intentional.

The guy on the left has a huge head:

And these gents have a lot of hip and some tiny feet:

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I'm with Our Kid on the unintended consequence angle. No designer in their right mind would seek to make people's heads look massive, not even cult of youth designers.

I call it cult of youth because it only really works for what would be considered a youthful body shape - skinny. Tall is a distinct positive for these cuts as the lines tend to be so long. But you don't want to be carrying any excess through the waist, let's say.

I'll add that these were extreme styles. The catalogues, as they do through all decades, show much more conservatively proportioned jackets etc. for those who don't want to, or can't, carry off the youthful long line narrow styles.

 

[Nobert]

Everything's relative and perception depends on what one is used to. It's entirely possible that people in 1919 would look at someone wearing a big shouldered suit with wide legs and think that their head and hands looked tiny.