The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[mayserwegener]

Borsalino without any indication of quality

Produced in the last years of life of the historic Borsalino factory in Alessandria

The lining is sewn, but as always I have some doubt about the production dates between the two management, the historic one and the new one that accompanied Borsalino's production for twenty years

The paper label is from that period

The heather hat felt has an indefinite color between the light brown and a bit of gray

It is referred to as the Borsalino "Magma" color type

while the ribbon has a color called "Talpa" and combines perfectly with the felt
The felt changing shades to any different light.

The proportions are: 6 cm. overwelted brim and the crown is 11 cm.

Daniele, Fantastic! The colors and finish are great. I have old Mayser Velour that is Talpa (European Mole) color.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/3-mayser-hutfabrik/page-4#entry631

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Daniele, looks like a great hat. The model reminds me of my Augusta Gris Fer I posted in the metal theme sequence of hats recently. A longhair in heather: what's not to like?

Stefan, you wrote that you are very interested in the heather felts and I try to settle for you.
I'm sorry to tell you it's a measure 59 (6 for Borsalino that uses the old French measurement for sizes)
This Borsalino is the brother of Augusta Gris Fer (Grigio Ferro) you posted

Daniele, Fantastic! The colors and finish are great. I have old Mayser Velour that is Talpa (European Mole) color.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/3-mayser-hutfabrik/page-4#entry631

Steve, this afternoon as I wrote about Borsalino, I had for five minutes a memory of the "mole color" I could not identify, now I understand what was buzzing in my head

Thanks to all for the appreciation

 

[Tonio]

Here's one that intrigued me. I bought it at an antique show. It's got a couple of issues and a couple interesting qualities.

 

[steur]

More than a couple I'd say, Tonio. That looks like a stunning and very old Borsalino. I would love to see how that one cleans up.

 

[besdor]

That looks to be a sample hat that one would have seen in a showroom .It is very old.

 

[mayserwegener]

Fantastic find! I can't recall seeing an older American market Borsalino posted here. Does it have a paper label behind the sweatband? If it does it would be great to compare it to older European market Borsalinos. It looks like there could have been a crown patch from the photo and the inside appears finished. The sweatband cord is most likely not original.

 

[Tonio]

Fantastic find! I can't recall seeing an older American market Borsalino posted here. Does it have a paper label behind the sweatband? If it does it would be great to compare it to older European market Borsalinos. It looks like there could have been a crown patch from the photo and the inside appears finished. The sweatband cord is most likely not original.

Thanks to all for the feedback. I was thrilled when I flipped this hat over and seen it was a unique Borsalino. Couldn't walk away from it.

The seller was a dealer of military antiques and not Borsalinos haha. He insisted it was 1880-1900 but who knows..I looked up "George A. Place" and came up with two Concord New Hampshire directories from 1918 and 1919 with this info:

The stitching is super fragile. The sweatband is detached in a couple spots, however I was very careful enough to snap this image. Anything that a professional can do to savage or secure it? Notice that the model number "11055" matches the number on the sweatband sticker.

Part of me wants to preserve it, and part wants to wear it and what ever happens, happens. Too cool not to be worn.

 

[mayserwegener]

Thank you for posting the photo. Here is a date stamped May 17, 1929 Echter Borsalino.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionz...c/50-borsalino-german-market/page-2#entry1153

I have 3 Echter Borsalinos from the late 1920s (sweatband date stamped) and they all have similar label form and hand written sizes but no corrugated vent. I have no idea how far back the corrugated vents go. I am positive your hat is at least early 1930s maybe older.

I also checked this old Italian market Borsalino Stiff Felt and it also has a hand written size but I don't have a photo of the label but I will get one tomorrow.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/the-bowler-or-derby-hat.32818/page-53#post-1570999

I think it will very difficult to reattach the sweatband because the stitching method and the thread being so fine. You can probably see it better on the Echter Borsalino I posted above (see link). There is also another one below it in the thread.

 

[Tonio]

Thank you for posting the photo. Here is a date stamped May 17, 1929 Echter Borsalino.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionz...c/50-borsalino-german-market/page-2#entry1153

I have 3 Echter Borsalinos from the late 1920s (sweatband date stamped) and they all have hand written sizes but no corrugated vent. I have no idea how far back the corrugated vents go. I am positive your hat is at least early 1930s maybe older.

I also checked this old Italian market Borsalino Stiff Felt and it also has a hand written size but I don't have a photo of the label but I will get one tomorrow.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/the-bowler-or-derby-hat.32818/page-53#post-1570999

I think it will very difficult to reattach the sweatband because the stitching method and the thread being so fine. You can probably see it better on the Echter Borsalino I posted above (see link). There is also another one below it in the thread.

Very informative as always. Thank you!

 

[mayserwegener]

Here is the paper label from the old Italian market G. & Fllo Borsalino Qualita Extra-Extra Superiore Bowler (link posted above and below) which also has the size written but the format is slightly different (the bottom second box is offset to the right and paper label has a longer length & shorter width). The box has a shipping date stamp of 3/31/31.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/the-borsalino-brotherhood.13133/page-146#post-1570985

With European Borsalinos a separate printed size label is added sometime in the 1930s and the format of the label changes (there a few examples here on the FL). I haven't seen an American market Borsalino with the separate size label but one might eventually materialize. This is an Echter Borsalino of mine with the separate printed size label.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/50-borsalino-german-market/#entry252

 

[carouselvic]

My Renna is American market with separate stickers.

 

[mayserwegener]

Sorry I forgot!

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/the-borsalino-brotherhood.13133/page-207#post-2012066

Also forgot that Bruno has / had one.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/the-borsalino-brotherhood.13133/page-207#post-2011858

 

[alanfgag]

Exciting find!

 

[steur]

I'm inclined to think that the more writing there is on the label the older it is. So the progression would be: handwritten numbers, colour, model and size: oldest. Next stamped numbers but written colour, model and size: less old. After that stamped numbers, colour, model and only written size, even less old. From there on: stamped numbers, colour, model and a separate size sticker. And finally everything stamped on the label. But it is Borsalino: I may be thinking too logical.

 

[carouselvic]

just another variable, printed model and hand written size....

 

[alanfgag]

And another US market hat with separate size label.

 

[mayserwegener]

I'm inclined to think that the more writing there is on the label the older it is. So the progression would be: handwritten numbers, colour, model and size: oldest. Next stamped numbers but written colour, model and size: less old. After that stamped numbers, colour, model and only written size, even less old. From there on: stamped numbers, colour, model and a separate size sticker. And finally everything stamped on the label. But it is Borsalino: I may be thinking too logical.

View attachment 74307

The box format of this one is the same as my G. & Fllo Borsalino Qualita Extra-Extra Superiore Bowler. It appears the older ones have a similar looking label with different lower box offset. Also the paper is placed at the same place where liners are present (also liner seams are similar). My 3 Echter Borsalinos have 1929 date stamps on the sweatbands so that gives some clue.

 

[mayserwegener]

just another variable, printed model and hand written size....

Interesting. Do you have a link to the hat? It doesn't have the boxes.

 

[carouselvic]

Interesting. Do you have a link to the hat? It doesn't have the boxes.

this is the hat....a black "Alessandria type"

it has this type of liner and size tag


which belongs to this hat

which also has the same style label w/o the hand written number and lines

 

[carouselvic]

here is another line less stamp

it belongs to this

and then there is this stamp

which goes to this hat

which sold at this price