cockpit usa a2 jacket

[Peter 1956]

I have some of the Saddlery /Cooper A2s and they are a totally different fit to the Cockpit version as they don t have the extra panel on the sides. They run small so i get a 40 all the time and the fit is good. The Cockpit and the current Excelled run true to size and even the 38 which is my normal clothes size tends to have a more baggy look compared to the Saddlery

 

[nick123]

This is the look a lot of people actually prefer. One friend of mine is convinced that a leather jacket is too small if the shoulders don't droop like that.

True. And when I joined this place well-fitting fit pics always looked too small to me. Took me a good while to get the picture.

 

[Gamma68]

I bought a size 42 goatskin Cooper A2 back in early 1992 and it was / is a traditional trim fit and looks nothing like the oversize jackets in the photos above. The main difference between it and the original jackets, as far as I can see, is that it has a three piece sleeve and the zip tape is nylon. After 25 years my jacket has broken in nicely and the leather, never treated since I bought it, remains intact and supple.

I know that Cooper A2s get a lot of flak from you guys, but I like 'em and I rather have mine than any of these new and expensive reproductions stated as being 'the real thing'.

Based on this and subsequent posts, it seems like there were some changes made to the Cooper A-2, moving from a trim fit toward baggy.

I don't know the year of manufacture of my Cooper A2 (eBay acquisition), but compared to some of the baggy fits of the Cockpit version, I think I did okay. It has two-panel sleeves, no side-entry or interior pockets. Tagged size 40.

The shoulders seem a little wide, but not to excess. I do wish the epaulettes sat flat on the shoulder, but I've also seen a few photos of vintage A-2s where they're not lying flat.

Measurements and some photos below:

Shoulders: 20”
Chest: 22.25”
Sleeve to end of knit cuff: 24.25”
Length from collar seam to end of knit waistband: 23.5”

P.S. Although worn casually by most folks today, I think an A-2 looks great with a button-down shirt and tie.

 

[Deacon211]

I think that looks pretty good Gamma!

I'm interested in the pics of the Cockpit A-2 that Seb posted.

Here's my Cockpit 100 Mission G–1

Now, while the sleeves are a bit long, I wouldn't say that this jacket fits me like a tent. Indeed it seems to fit about like my other G-1s. In fact at a size 48, I'd say that this G-1 fits me a little trimmer than your average 48 G-1.

Which makes me wonder if the Cockpit isn't at least in part giving its models about a size bigger than we would think they should wear.

If not, then it seems that the Cockpit cuts it's A-2s significantly more roomily than their G-1s.

Curious.


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[Seb Lucas]

I heard back from Cockpit - advised that their Reissue A2 size 40 has a shoulder width of 21 inches. As a point of comparison most Aero A2's I have seen at size 40 have a shoulder width 18 to 19 inches.

 

[GregGale]

I heard back from Cockpit - advised that their Reissue A2 size 40 has a shoulder width of 21 inches. As a point of comparison most Aero A2's I have seen at size 40 have a shoulder width 18 to 19 inches.

Their Reissue A-2 ot their WWII Government issue A-2? They are very different cuts.
I owned a "reissue" and it was a very modern, baggy cut. Now I have a WWII gov. and it's much, much trimmer.

 

[Seb Lucas]

As I mentioned at the start, the "Reissue" which someone suggested was trimmer and based on original patterns when it was first brought back after the war.

 

[GregGale]

I'm afraid they suggested incorrectly.

Baggy, modern-ish fit:
https://www.cockpitusa.com/men/a-2-flight-jackets/reissue-a-2-jacket

Trim, WWII fit:
https://www.cockpitusa.com/men/a-2-flight-jackets/wwii-government-issue-a-2-jacket

It is based on original patterns when it was re-introduced after the war (70s-80s?) , it's exactly that baggier pattern that modern A-2s carry too.

 

[Seb Lucas]

The Reissue is meant to be trimmer, the jacket was then redesigned and became the baggier USSAF 21st Century jacket - this was the reissue of the Reissue.

I have been advised the WW2 version also has 21 inch shoulders. I have asked Cockpit to confirm and whether they have an A2 with 19 or 20 inch shoulders. You are right that the WW2 jacket should be trimmer and this was always my assumption.

 

[Deacon211]

So just for us all to be on the same sheet of music, the "Reissue" equals "Modern" and the "WWII Issue" is, well, "WWII".

This is again one of those copy writer things. The "Reissue" ad has a bunch of fluff in it all about how Jack Clyman helped the government reissue the jacket because that gives the Cockpit jacket street cred, not undeservedly.

But nowhere does it specifically say that this jacket is based on the original reissue A-2s or the modified later style. If you read it directly, it says the Cockpit was instrumental in redesigning the A-2 for the Air Force AND we have a Cockpit A-2 for sale.

It doesn't say, that those two things are in any way directly related.

It seems on its face that the Cockpit jacket has larger measurements for its size than an original. On the other hand, it also seems that the Cockpit says that it was patterned after an original that also had those measurements.

So, given the variety of contracts from WWII and the variations in those contracts, is it just possible that the jacket that the Cockpit chose to emulate was roomier in size?

Also, is the shoulder measurement the final word in fit? When I had Steve S make my m-422a, I sent him measurements of all my jackets as a guide, from the very loose fitting W+G to the trim ELC Foster. What surprised me was that the measurements were pretty close across the board although the jackets fit entirety differently.

I also had a discussion with a repro maker who told me that most original jackets were cut very squarely in the shoulders. This made the jacket more trim with the arms down but made it ride up when you lifted your arms.

On the other hand, many modern repros are supposedly cut a little slump shouldered which made it more comfortable, but less square at the shoulders. So perhaps this adds to the slumpy look of the modern A-2 epaulette?


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[Big J]

@Seb, yes! This is exactly what I'm trying to say!

 

[Fanch]

Based on this and subsequent posts, it seems like there were some changes made to the Cooper A-2, moving from a trim fit toward baggy.

I don't know the year of manufacture of my Cooper A2 (eBay acquisition), but compared to some of the baggy fits of the Cockpit version, I think I did okay. It has two-panel sleeves, no side-entry or interior pockets. Tagged size 40.

The shoulders seem a little wide, but not to excess. I do wish the epaulettes sat flat on the shoulder, but I've also seen a few photos of vintage A-2s where they're not lying flat.

Measurements and some photos below:

Shoulders: 20”
Chest: 22.25”
Sleeve to end of knit cuff: 24.25”
Length from collar seam to end of knit waistband: 23.5”

P.S. Although worn casually by most folks today, I think an A-2 looks great with a button-down shirt and tie.

That Cooper A-2 looks and appears to fit very well. I used to have that same Cooper A-2 at one time in 44 Long that was a trim fit for me. The only negative about the Cooper A-2 is the lining is a cotton/polyester blend rather than 100% cotton.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Cockpit have advised me that the "Reissue A2" jacket is one of their slimmer cut jackets. It was the first of their A2 reissues so Big J was correct.

The on line brochure actually says that the "USAF 21st Century A2" version was a redesign based on suggestions given to them after the 1987 reissue came out.

It's worth clarifying that there were two reissues: one called the "Reissue A2" which came out first and was supposedly based on an original and then the "USAF 21st Century" reissue which had design changes for fit and pockets.

However 21 inches across the shoulders for the "Reissue A2" is still a couple of inches too big for my taste. The WW2 version has the same cut. They call it a 'regular fit" I have been advised that if you want 19-20 inch shoulders in any Cockpit A2 you have to fit into a a size 32.

I guess the only way to get a more empirically sound answer to this is to actually compare the measurements of a WW2 with a Reissue A2.

 

[Deacon211]

I'm getting lost among the reissues!


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[Deacon211]

Have you considered PMing Warhawk? He's up in the Cockpit Pantheon. He might be able to shed some light on their reasoning.

I'm still scratching my head why the G-1s fit true to size but the A-2s are tents.


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[HanauMan]

View media item 1442Here is my 1991/2 Cooper in size 42R. Unlike what I wrote above, it actually has a two piece sleeve and no extra side panel. I think this is a trimmer jacket than the later Cockpits and Cooper jackets I have seen.

 

[Gamma68]

View media item 1442Here is my 1991/2 Cooper in size 42R. Unlike what I wrote above, it actually has a two piece sleeve and no extra side panel. I think this is a trimmer jacket than the later Cockpits and Cooper jackets I have seen.

Looks very much like mine in size 40R. Same two-piece sleeve construction and no side panel. Our examples seem to be among the better Cooper A-2s produced.

 

[HanauMan]

Looks very much like mine in size 40R. Same two-piece sleeve construction and no side panel. Our examples seem to be among the better Cooper A-2s produced.

Yes, looks like it. I really like the fit on your jacket. I note that your label is different to mine.

View media item 1617

 

[Seb Lucas]

I had Stanley at Cockpit USA measure the shoulder width of a size 40 WW2 A2. It is 21 inches, exactly the same cut as the first Reissue jacket. I would prefer a 40 to be around 19 inches (I have seen period examples with shoulders of 18.5 inches in a 40). For me when the shoulder is too wide the whole jacket is out. I would think that a size 40 to 44 A2 should not exceed 20 inches across the shoulders.

 

[El Marro]

That sounds about right to me Seb. I usually wear a size 46 A2 and 20.5" or 21" shoulders fit me perfectly.