Zippers

[H.Johnson]

Thanks for referring us to this. It is, I believe, one of Sundberg's first hookless fasteners, before the company even acquired that trade name.

I have seen drawings but never a photograph. I am in awe.

 

[MrBern]

Brit suits- Lightning Zipper

Recently picked up some nice suits by JCWELLS Ltd of London.
Left zip is from an early `60s suit, the right from a `71 pinstripe suit.
Both run about 9.5 inches.

 

[H.Johnson]

Mr. Bern

These are the common Lightning small zip of the 60s and 70s. If ever you need a spare puller I have dozens of them!

 

[bburtner@moran]

Conmar zipper

1-Original Conmar zipper sold today on ebay $154.60! Yikes,I thought these were bad times..................

 

[H.Johnson]

Yeh, I'm just taking one out of a first pattern Tanker jacket - there's no way it's worth anything like that. In fact the jacket isn't worth that much!

 

[himelator]

Dear Fedoralounge members,

I would like to make it clear from the outset that I am a much more charismatic person than this posting would suggest, with interests that include archeology and history, art and literature as well as philosophy and the metaphysical.

I am also into zip fasteners. By the way, the word 'zipper' was first used (but not registered) by the Goodrich Corporation of Akron Ohio in 1923. They made galoshes.

OK, here's the link between Talon and Lightning. The Automatic Fastener Co(which later became Hookless which later became Talon) employed a Swedish/German engineer named Sundback who patented a toothed fastener called the Plako in 1913 (Pat. no. 1,060,3780). They were, incidentally, used in mens' pants soon after this. Sundback later patented an improved version (Pat. no. 1,236,784) which is essentially the zipper as we know it today. During WW1 Hookless held the US rights, but Sundback cleverly contrived to keep the rights for the rest of the world.

Also during WW1 Birmingham UK arms manufurer Kynock (which in 1926 joined dynamite producers Nobel to form Imperial Chemical Industries or ICI). As WW1 ended and the demand for arms reduced, Kynoch looked for alternative future products and identified the revolutionary new fastener as a possibility. Zips (as they are called in the UK) were made at Witton in Birmingham. As one of the big overseas markets was Canada, it made sense for Kynoch to open a factory there, whcih it did (in Quebec) in 1924. Kynich was able to send over administrators and managers, but lacked a top engineer/designer. They approached Sundback, who assigned the rights to the patents in exchange for all the stock of the Canadian Lightning Fastener Co. and became its first president. Sundback moved the Canadian operation to Ontario to be near the Hookless plant at Meadville, and since Sundback was associated with both companies in a consulting role, in effect creating a joint co-operation which ran throughout the 1920s and 1930s. Incidentally, during this period Prentice began to make zippers that Lightning claimed infringed Sunback's patents. After a legal battle that lasted until 1934, Lightning won the case. Sunback was now employed as a consultant by Talon (as Hookless now chose to be called on its products) with rights to sell in the USA and also owned Canadian Lightning with rights to sell in the rest of the world. Thus, some Canadian-made Lightnings look very like US-made Talons because Sundback designed and engineered both in his different roles. Incidentally, the Hookless Fastener Co. became Talon Inc. in January 1937.

I hope this helps.

I was curious what your source for this was...Talon Inc. A Romance of Achievement?: Could you site for me please or send to info@fevintage.com

best
David.

 

[Dinerman]

Talon

 

[H.Johnson]

Aren't these interesting?

I've seen this type of YKK zip before and they never cease to amaze me. Most people decry YKK zips as 'modern' but some of their early work is of excellent quality and surprisingly like 'classic' designs. Perhaps something to do with the supposed Japanese ethic of 'learning by imitation'.

Only the zip tape and stopper would give a real indication of the difference in age between these zips.

Thanks for posting them.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Funnily enough, HJ, those YKKs are from a pair of old lady bootees.

bk

 

[Creeping Past]

Fixing a loose Zipper

Is there any way of increasing the stickiness/adhesion of a zipper that slides too freely? I know about graphite and wax to free sticky zippers, but any hints on dealing with the inverse would be appreciated.

 

[BellyTank]

Well... Beeswax- to sticky it up..?

Give the slider a bash with a hammer.


B
T

 

[alden405]

you can crimp the edges of the slider very gently with pliers

 

[carlstadt]

Here are some zippers from my Vintage British Jacket. Zippers are Lightning.
Does anybody know what year they were used?

 

[Dinerman]

 

[frontmanvintage]

I found the info in this thread to be most interesting.

I am working on an (American) suit dating guide / book and find that the easiest dating is with the ACWA (union) label; luckily I was able to crack the dating code for the 1949 series labels. Of course some dating clues are obvious, like lining & vents, but I also think that Talon trouser zips can be a good clue as there are very subtle, yet noticeable differences thru the years.

Unfortunately, my own suit stock is now limited, so if you guys would be good enough to post some clear pics of the slides and the approximate date of the suit or the corresponding ACWA label, I can take it from there.

With all the info already posted, my next task just might be jackets. Thanks to ya'll.

BTW - did you know that a lot of Talon zips made during WWII were plastic as steel was needed for the War effort?

 

[BellyTank]

BTW - did you know that a lot of Talon zips made during WWII were plastic as steel was needed for the War effort?

Do you mean "home front"/dress-making zippers,
rather than ones used in WW2 uniforms?

I've never seen a plastic, wartime TALON brand zipper.
Also, not all "metal" TALON zippers, were steel.

Show me, I'd be interested to see.


B
T

 

[BellyTank]

Kynoch zips-

In the interests of keeping this thread alive...

I have just taken delivery of a couple of "Kynoch" zips.
As HJohnson knows, these were made at Kynoch Works, Witton, Birmingham.
Kynoch began production of zip fasteners (in addition to their existing products)around 1920 and then launched Lightning Fasteners Ltd. in 1926.
Mine, I presume, are from before 1926 as they have only "British Made", "Kynoch" and a patent number stamped on the zip pull.
Pictures to follow...

In the meantime:

"1919-1920 ...Two chain machines are installed and five staff transferred from other duties to start making an interesting novelty invented in the U.S.A., the zip fastener.
1926 A new company is formed: Lightning Fasteners Ltd., to handle the zip fastener business... Lightning Fasteners now has a French factory and is considering a German."

http://www.staffshomeguard.co.uk/KOtherInformationKynochV2A.htm


B
T

 

[H.Johnson]

Correct in every detail. The 'existing products' that the workers were transferred from were, of course, WW1 ammunition.

Sundback (of Talon fame) actually held the patent for zip manufacture outside the USA at this time and licenced it for Europe to Kynoch. If you would be so good as to let me know the patent number, I would like to check it with a copy of the original patent grant.

 

[BellyTank]

Looks like 12261 but it is a little indistict-
the "6" could possibly be a "0".


B
T

 

[H.Johnson]

Thanks - and, 'Damn!' - I've just realised that I've lent the seminal Talon book to Baron Kurtz...