Who needs four-wheel drive? Offroading in the Golden Era.

[AtomicEraTom]

I live in Rural Wisconsin and have never had a 4x4. The best snow vehicle I've ever had is my 87 Caprice wagon. It's heavy in the back and goes through the snow just fine. All my sedans, I just fill the trunks with sand bags and weigh that tail end down and do just fine. That wagon is just nice because it was already weighed down, so I could still use it for hauling. Snow tires help too. I put truck tires on my cars in the winter.

 

[MPicciotto]

Was just watching Hatari. Talk about some great off roading. I see a couple of CJ-6's (RHD I might add) and looks like some FC-170's. What's the pickup? What else is in that movie?

Matt

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I agree with who needs 4 wheel drive, I like others have seen all too many big truck 4 wheel drive types spin out our cause accidents.

That is the problem with people who drive monster 4WD SUVs. They push their vehicle WELL beyond the limits of what they & their vehicle can handle.

 

[Paisley]

In another life, I photographed car wrecks. It was mostly 4WD vehicles in the ditch; not too many Camaros and GTOs.

 

[adamjaskie]

I think most people with SUVs have never really driven them in REAL snow, so they don't have a clue what they are doing when a few inches come down. They figure they can just drive like they normally do, and they're usually spinning out and in the ditch before I have yanked the lever in my SUV from 2 to 4 hi.

Of course, people in cars are guilty too. Like the kid I found trying to pull his friend's full-size sedan out of a drift with his Honda Civic. He was backing up until the strap was slack, then running out to the end of it at full speed, then sitting there with the wheels spinning. Repeatedly. He was a friggin' MECHANICAL ENGINEERING MAJOR, too. I hooked the strap up to my jeep and slowly pulled the thing out of the drift without a problem.

The biggest thing that impresses me about all these old-time off-road pics: they're doing all this on period tires.

 

[79CJ]

For sure, SUV owners that don’t know 4wd doesn’t help you stop are really just using it to propel themselves faster than they can handle, but they’re the same people that would be crashing a Model T in the snow in 1919

I think the Model T’s advantages are its low weight and great ground clearance.
Model T: 1200 to 1500lbs depending on the year, 9.8” clearance
’42 Willy’s MB (Jeep): 2454lbs, 8.7” clearance
2011 Jeep Wrangler: 3805lbs, 8.8” clearance

As far as motors go, a lot of modern rockcrawlers use 4cyl engines with really, really low gearing. On the other hand, trucks with big tires that are trying to plow through deep soupy mud need the power and torque of a big V8. I’m guessing the Model T was geared low, heck, it had a top speed of 45.

Even with what the Model T or other early cars offered, I’d take a ’45 (or my ’79) Jeep for my off-road adventure any day if I had to get where I was going. There is just no substitute for 4wd; I’ve seen enough cars stuck in places I don’t think twice about, i.e. snow, muddy grass parking lots, and camp grounds, to attest for that. But, for plain old fun, I’d love the opportunity to take a Model T or A truck and do some vintage off-roading to a far away deer camp.

 

[Paisley]

IOf course, people in cars are guilty too. Like the kid I found trying to pull his friend's full-size sedan out of a drift with his Honda Civic. He was backing up until the strap was slack, then running out to the end of it at full speed, then sitting there with the wheels spinning. Repeatedly. He was a friggin' MECHANICAL ENGINEERING MAJOR, too.

Not that surprising, actually. I used to grade papers for a dynamics class, and it was amazing how many people used g (gravitational acceleration) for acceleration in the horizontal direction. Forget about applying something in real life.

When I worked at the Air Force Academy, I used to see people stop while going up a hill, put the car in 4WD, get back in and spin their wheels. Only officers did that.

 

[Mrs. Merl]

I think the mechanics of off-roading are far different from using 4W in town/weather conditions. It isn't really even a relevant discussion to compare the two. Just my two cents.

 

[Optionseeker]

I think the mechanics of off-roading are far different from using 4W in town/weather conditions. It isn't really even a relevant discussion to compare the two. Just my two cents.

Very good point. I have a Diesel Land Cruiser imported from Japan with 3 locking differentials. Almost unstoppable offroad with all 3 locked but I wouldn't want to lock any of them on road in the ice/snow. Tall, skinny tires help in the snow which may explain all the Escalades (et al) in the ditch.

An earlier poster suggested that, with open diffs, most 4wds are only one front and one rear. In fact, if you prop one wheel of the ground in most 4wds, it will spin while the truck stays still.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

My brother and I just went though this argument with some friends of his. He drives an 86 Power Ram 4x4, it needed new tires. All his friends were telling him he needed to put Super Swampers or Mud Boggers or some other expensive garbage you don't need on a street vehicle. I told him just what he said himself, put some stock pizza cutter tires on there and you'll have no problem in the snow. Needless to say, he's done rather well in the snow where his buddies with their mud tires haven't done so hot.

And as for me, I'll stick with putting Truck Tires or Snow Tires on my car come winter

 

[MPicciotto]

I'm not a bartender. But I'll ask all the same. Can we turn this conversation towards vintage 4-wheelin (be it 2, 4 or otherwheel drive)?

Here's a picture to that affect:

Ok, so it's only a movie. But come on. It's still cool. A RHD CJ-6 in the plains of East Africa!

Matt

 

[David Conwill]

I'm not a bartender. But I'll ask all the same. Can we turn this conversation towards vintage 4-wheelin (be it 2, 4 or otherwheel drive)?

I was going to ask the same. The title "Who needs four-wheel drive?" was kind of meant to be rhetorical.

I know there have to be some more vintage off-road shots and vehicles to be shared.

-Dave

 

[Mrs. Merl]

Thank goodness! I was hoping this would not take a turn - I really want to see more vintage off road stuff! (Sorry I haven't any - only modern off road.) But I love the pictures thus far and want to see more!

 

[79CJ]

Sorry everyone, didn't mean to turn this into a wool v. synthetics debate.

I think the ultimate in vintage offroad would have to be the WWII and post-war Dodge WC/ Power Wagon series. They are big and look like they can go anywhere. Plus, some of them are just too cool:

http://image.automotive.com/f/featuredvehicles/9562827+pheader/129_0801_01_z+1950_dodge_power_wagon+passenger_side_view.jpg

 

[David Conwill]

The Ultimate in Vintage Offroad

1946 Ford Super Deluxe Marmon-Herrington wagon

This would be my pick.

-Dave

 

[Parkpiper]

Now that is a "grocery getter" that I would love to drive....off road of course! You gotta love the wood paneling.

 

[number6]

46 Ford

Oh yeah ! Now thats got it all. Love it .


Paul.

 

[Mike K.]

I'm not a bartender. But I'll ask all the same. Can we turn this conversation towards vintage 4-wheelin (be it 2, 4 or otherwheel drive)?

A little comparative discussion of modern and vintage 4WD/driving is perfectly acceptable and quite educational to learn how things have changed over time. So far we haven't been steering too far off course (no pun intended), but let's keep the discussion of poor driving ability to a minimum, the discussion of only modern vehicles to a minimum, and stay focused on the thread topic.

 

[MPicciotto]

Swamp buggy taking picnickers for ride through the swamps.
FL, US
Date taken: March 1961
Image obtained from here:
http://images.google.com/hosted/lif...e:life&start=18&hl=hu&sa=N&ndsp=18&tbs=isch:1

And another from the same site:

Matt

 

[StraightEight]

Our favorite (and first) vintage 4wd trip. The GPW has a pretty crude 4wd system by modern standards. Three modes: 2 hi, 4 hi, and 4 low. The front hubs are locked so the front axle is always turning, even in 2 hi. There is no center differential so 4wd is for off-road use only. Front and rear diffs are open. Still, it's pretty capable owing to its light weight and high gear reduction. We only got it stuck once, in a ditch near the drop zones west of Sainte-Mere-Eglise, when we pulled over to let a convoy pass.