When do Cuban cigars become legally available in the US?

[Workhorse]

Just curious as to when Cuban cigars (legally) will be at our local corner US tobacconist now that relations have thawed between the US and Cuba. Any thoughts?

Ross-

Northern Colorado

 

[Stanley Doble]

I think they are now, you could check with customs to be sure. If I am right you will soon see advertisements for "genuine Cuban cigars".

 

[HudsonHawk]

As long as the trade embargo remains in effect, it is illegal for a US citizen to purchase a Cuban cigar, anywhere in the world. Legalizing Cuban trade imports will require lifting the embargo, which requires action from Congress. It will probably still be some time before that happens, and even longer for Cuban cigars to be available for other legal/copyright/brand issues, which will likely be tied up in court for years.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

I have had some and wasn't impressed. They were probably bad quality, and I'm no expert, but I would put the stuff from the DR or the Bahamas up against them. Still would like to try some more though.

 

[jamespowers]

I have had some and wasn't impressed. They were probably bad quality, and I'm no expert, but I would put the stuff from the DR or the Bahamas up against them. Still would like to try some more though.

You have had some bad ones then. I would put up Nicaraguans or Hondurans against them but not Bahamas.
Try the Partagas Serie D No 4 and tell me there is no difference.

 

[Edward]

As long as the trade embargo remains in effect, it is illegal for a US citizen to purchase a Cuban cigar, anywhere in the world. Legalizing Cuban trade imports will require lifting the embargo, which requires action from Congress. It will probably still be some time before that happens, and even longer for Cuban cigars to be available for other legal/copyright/brand issues, which will likely be tied up in court for years.

Interesting - I didn't know the US tried to extend thed ban that far (i.e. onto US citizens outside the US, as distinct from importing/ using in the US). I've always heard good things about Cuban cigars, though I can't quite help but wonder whether they could possibly live up to the mythical status that the ban has granted them in the US.

 

[scotrace]

And the industry outside Cuba has had time to develop some pretty extraordinary crops and blends.

 

[HudsonHawk]

You have had some bad ones then. I would put up Nicaraguans or Hondurans against them but not Bahamas.
Try the Partagas Serie D No 4 and tell me there is no difference.

Bahamanian cigars are simply awful.

There are plenty of bad Cuban cigars, just as there are bad cigars from everywhere else. And if you didn't get it from a reputable cigar merchant in a big city, it was probably fake. About 90% of the cigars in the world marketed as Cuban are fakes. About 50% of the cigars in Cuba are fakes.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Interesting - I didn't know the US tried to extend thed ban that far (i.e. onto US citizens outside the US, as distinct from importing/ using in the US). I've always heard good things about Cuban cigars, though I can't quite help but wonder whether they could possibly live up to the mythical status that the ban has granted them in the US.

It is illegal for a US citizen (or permanent resident or anyone otherwise subject to US jurisdiction) to purchase any product produced in a country on which the US has placed a trade embargo. Period. It's a violation of the "Trading With The Enemy" Act. As far as I know, the only two countries on the list are Cuba and North Korea. But it's not as if the US State Department goes around arresting Americans in London or Hong Kong for smoking Cuban cigars, though technically they could be prosecuted when they return to the US (I've never heard of that happening though). They are more concerned with stopping the importation, and even then, if you're caught trying to sneak Cuban cigars through US customs, they will likely only confiscate your sticks, though a hefty fine is possible.

As for Cuban cigars themselves...it's hard for people to accept sometimes, but they are indeed different than tobacco grown everywhere else, even grown from Cuban seeds. Not that there aren't bad Cuban cigars, there are plenty. But the good ones...

 

[jamespowers]

Bahamanian cigars are simply awful.

There are plenty of bad Cuban cigars, just as there are bad cigars from everywhere else. And if you didn't get it from a reputable cigar merchant in a big city, it was probably fake. About 90% of the cigars in the world marketed as Cuban are fakes. About 50% of the cigars in Cuba are fakes.

You said it not me.

There are. Anything made by Jose Piedra is horrible. There are fakes and there will be tons more if the embargo is lifted.
The good news is that fakes are fairly easy to spot. The label is wrong. Construction is wrong. If you get them by the box----the codes and holograms are very difficult to reproduce correctly. They way they set in the box and the materials used also tell you if they are boxed fakes. The easiest way to tell is smoking them of course. Then you know for sure.

After you smoke a few hundred of them, you know well what to expect.

 

[gtdean48]

You have had some bad ones then. I would put up Nicaraguans or Hondurans against them but not Bahamas.
Try the Partagas Serie D No 4 and tell me there is no difference.

I've had good & bad Cubans like I've had good & bad DR, Nicaraguans, Hondurans & Mexican. Had some fine smokes out of Key West, too.
The good Cubans were fantastic & only the great DR ones came even close to measuring up to them, but not quite.
The size of the island of Cuba does produce the soil & climate conditions that DR can't totally duplicate, IMHO.

 

[jamespowers]

I've had good & bad Cubans like I've had good & bad DR, Nicaraguans, Hondurans & Mexican. Had some fine smokes out of Key West, too.
The good Cubans were fantastic & only the great DR ones came even close to measuring up to them, but not quite.
The size of the island of Cuba does produce the soil & climate conditions that DR can't totally duplicate, IMHO.

Just as you have terroir in wine you have the same thing with tobacco. Where it is grown and in what soil makes a big difference and you can tell by the tastes and aromas rendered.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Bahamanian cigars are simply awful.

There are plenty of bad Cuban cigars, just as there are bad cigars from everywhere else. And if you didn't get it from a reputable cigar merchant in a big city, it was probably fake. About 90% of the cigars in the world marketed as Cuban are fakes. About 50% of the cigars in Cuba are fakes.

Well I said I wasn't an expert, but when I was last in Nassau I had some Graycliffs that were amazing, at least I thought so.

 

[Edward]

It is illegal for a US citizen (or permanent resident or anyone otherwise subject to US jurisdiction) to purchase any product produced in a country on which the US has placed a trade embargo. Period. It's a violation of the "Trading With The Enemy" Act. As far as I know, the only two countries on the list are Cuba and North Korea.

Ah, yes. We have equivalent statutory provisions in the UK, most recently the rushed-through Trading with the Enemy Act 1939. It's technically stil in force, thouygh I have no idea when it was last applied.

But it's not as if the US State Department goes around arresting Americans in London or Hong Kong for smoking Cuban cigars, though technically they could be prosecuted when they return to the US (I've never heard of that happening though). They are more concerned with stopping the importation, and even then, if you're caught trying to sneak Cuban cigars through US customs, they will likely only confiscate your sticks, though a hefty fine is possible.

That computes very clearly with me - I am, to a great extent, of the same opinion as the Legal Realists: the law is how it is enforced. I think most of these laws were designs a] to make a point, and b] to shut down significant business that might help an "enemy". In the UK, as I recall the biggest affected industry would be the arms industry, for obvious reasons.

As for Cuban cigars themselves...it's hard for people to accept sometimes, but they are indeed different than tobacco grown everywhere else, even grown from Cuban seeds. Not that there aren't bad Cuban cigars, there are plenty. But the good ones...

Just as you have terroir in wine you have the same thing with tobacco. Where it is grown and in what soil makes a big difference and you can tell by the tastes and aromas rendered.

That would follow logically. Do they do any good pipe tobacco down there?

 

[jamespowers]

Ah, yes. We have equivalent statutory provisions in the UK, most recently the rushed-through Trading with the Enemy Act 1939. It's technically stil in force, thouygh I have no idea when it was last applied.




That computes very clearly with me - I am, to a great extent, of the same opinion as the Legal Realists: the law is how it is enforced. I think most of these laws were designs a] to make a point, and b] to shut down significant business that might help an "enemy". In the UK, as I recall the biggest affected industry would be the arms industry, for obvious reasons.




That would follow logically. Do they do any good pipe tobacco down there?

They do have pipe tobacco as well but I have not tried any of it so I could not vouch for it as I can the cigars.

 

[Stanley Doble]

The US and Cuba reached an agreement on Wednesday to restore diplomatic relations. The result of 18 months of negotiations with the help of the Vatican and Canada.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/17/us-cuba-usa-gross-idUSKBN0JV1H520141217

The process is ongoing as they need the approval of Congress to end the embargo. So, no Cuban cigars in the local tobacco shop for a while.

The embargo is an obvious failure. If the US had not refused to recognize the Castro government, he would have been replaced in the next election and things would have been back to normal by 1965. As it is, the Cuban people have suffered and the Castro government kept in power.

 

[HudsonHawk]

My opinion was based on a news story that Obama wanted to lift the embargo. The same article said the embargo had to be renewed by the president every year.

The President renews the listing of Cuba under the Trading With The Enemy Act, but the embargo is codified in various laws, and as such requires Congressional repeal. The President has some stroke on certain things like travel restrictions, but it will take an act of Congress to repeal the various laws that mandate the embargo.

The embargo is an obvious failure. If the US had not refused to recognize the Castro government, he would have been replaced in the next election and things would have been back to normal by 1965.

While I agree the embargo has been an abject failure, I don't know about the latter. The first thing Castro did when he took power was outlaw elections, famously declaring "Cuba is a socialist state...we don't have time for elections". The first elections under his regime didn't occur until 1976, and all of them, up to and including the most recent, have been a farce. There is no direct vote for President, and there are no opposition candidates. It's not really an "election" when there is only one candidate on the ballot.

 

[Stanley Doble]

That was not the first thing. Castro did not turn to the Soviet Union until it was obvious the US was not going to recognize his government. There was a period of 4 or 5 months when the whole business was hanging fire.

During this time Castro visited Canada, which did recognize his government. Discount store owner "Honest" Ed Mirvish gave a reception in Toronto at which he presented Castro with a tractor, paid for by public subscription. He said for years he was scared of being arrested every time he visited the US. But he didn't know there was anything wrong at the time as the rest of the world had no problem with Castro.

Castro's 26th of July Movement did not become the Communist Party until 1965.

President Truman blamed Eisenhower for dropping the ball. He should have contacted Castro at once, in Truman's opinion. This was written up in Plain Speaking by Merle Miller, Truman's memoir.

 

[Stanley Doble]

What if Eisenhower had recognized the Castro government in 1959? Do you think it possible the political situation would have got back to normal within a reasonable period of time? Could Castro have afforded to alienate the US? Would he not have pursued a different policy if he was aligned with the US rather than the Soviet Union?

Castro turned to the Soviets after Eisenhower refused to recognize him. After that, he had to align with Soviet policy or lose their support. And if they ever left Cuba it was only a matter of time before his head ended up on a stick.

 

[Stanley Doble]

"I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country’s policies during the Batista regime. I approved the proclamation which Fidel Castro made in the Sierra Maestra, when he justifiably called for justice and especially yearned to rid Cuba of corruption. I will even go further: to some extent it is as though Batista was the incarnation of a number of sins on the part of the United States. Now we shall have to pay for those sins. In the matter of the Batista regime, I am in agreement with the first Cuban revolutionaries. That is perfectly clear."

— U.S. President John F. Kennedy, interview with Jean Daniel, 24 October 1963



What would have happened if Kennedy had not been killed a month after making this statement. He recognized that the Battista regime had become intolerably corrupt under the influence of American gangsters and big business, and that the people were justified in revolting after being robbed, abused, exploited and denied justice and honest elections.