What type of hat is this?

[Taggert]

Hello all,

As you can see I am very new here and to hats (I have another thread regarding my own hat).

Now onto my question, this is my Great Grandfathers hat on my Fathers side. I have absolutely no idea what it is , tho I am inclined to think it's a soft top bowler. It is made by a company called Champ, and is fur felt from what I can tell, has a stingy brim and is size 6 7/8 I think, it's hard to read the tag) but other than that I am at a loss.

I do not know what era it's from, and any other information you could give would be greatly appreciated. The condition you see it in is how i found it, very dirty with a pinch in the front and the top pushed in which is why I'm not sure it's a bowler.

here are the pic's i can take more if needed:

Thanks for your time,

Taggert

 

[Dinerman]

It's a mid 1960s stingy brim fedora.
Champ was a low priced hat company. They made decent hats. I like their product than a lot of other companies of the era with comparable prices.

 

[Taggert]

Dinerman,
Thanks for the quick reply! Ok now that I know what it is , I have a couple of questions.

1. Could the hat be stretched to fit my larger melon? I believe I have around a 22" head .

If so where could I get this hat cleaned and fixed up and all that? Also what would said service cost?


Thanks again,

Taggert

 

[RBH]

Welcome to the Lounge... Champs are great looking hats!

 

[tandmark]

Hiya,

Welcome to the Fedora Lounge, Taggert!

Bowler? Nope. Not with the dents in the top and front. Plus bowlers/derbies are often made of notably stiff felt. They actually started out as some sort of riding helmet for fox hunters, or some such thing. (For what it's worth, it's that sporting heritage that makes it a fashion faux pas to wear one with formal wear.)

I agree that yours is a mid-20th century stingy brim.

It might be from a few years earlier than Dinerman is guessing. I recall seeing stingies on the head of Sean Connery in the first James Bond movie, and on the head of Patrick McGoohan in the TV series Danger Man/Secret Agent. Those shows were released in the early '60s.

As for stretching it to fit your head, well, if the hat is really a (US) 6 7/8, and your head is really 22", then that's probably an OK amount of stretching. It's one size difference, from 6 7/8 to 7. Trying to stretch a hat more than that is way more problematic.

The smart money would be to take your stingy brim to a hat shop and have them do the stretch. You could do it yourself, by steaming the hat then letting it cool and dry on a hat stretcher, but your chances of damaging the sweatband would be pretty high with a 45+ year old hat.

A hat stretcher can be found at hat shops, Western gear shops (probably kinda hard to find one of those in Mass.), and online, no problem. It'd be pretty inexpensive, too. You probably shouldn't learn how to use one by experimenting on an older hat with sentimental or family value, though.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[bolthead]

Welcome Taggert...

"As for stretching it to fit your head, well, if the hat is really a (US) 6 7/8, and your head is really 22", then that's probably an OK amount of stretching. It's one size difference, from 6 7/8 to 7. Trying to stretch a hat more than that is way more problematic."

I agree with this advice.
Another thing, I consider myself to have a pretty small head & mines a 22" 56mm size 7. If you say your "melon" is big, I'd have to guess it's much larger then 22", IMHO. [huh]

 

[Taggert]

Ok well maybe melon is huge was a overstatement..lol
I just measured using string and it was 22 1/4 inches does that still fall into the 7 category or is it a bit more?

Is there anyone that people can recommend for resizing my hat and bringing it back to it's former glory? Please remember i am a student so funds are not in huge abundance..lol


Thanks again all for the help, and for the welcome, feels nice =)

 

[Colby Jack]

Welcome to the lounge Taggert!...Good luck on your stretching problem!

 

[tandmark]

Hi,

Let's see if I can help sort it out a bit:

If the hat is actually a US size 6 7/8 and hasn't shrunk appreciably, then going from that to a US size 7 is easy enough to do with a new hat, and generally doable with an older one.

I've had a hat shop crack the sweatband on one of my stingy brims from the late-'50s/early-'60s going up one hat size. But it's generally doable without ill effects.

If your head measures 22 inches, then you're a size 7. If it's 22 1/2 inches, then you're a size 7 1/8, the next size up.

Where I'm going with this is: If you're actually 22 1/4, then you might stretch the hat up as far as it'll go without damage, only to find that the hat still won't fit.

You might also find that it'll be wearable when you finish the stretch, only to find a while later that it's shrunk back somewhat. Since your head is slightly larger than a standard US size 7, you'll notice this faster than someone whose head is 22 inches dead on.

Some of us with stretched hats keep them in hat stretchers (when they're not on our heads) to prevent them from shrinking back. In other words, even if you have a hat shop stretch it for you, which might be free or might cost $25 give-or-take, you'll still have to get a stretcher which will run you another $10 - $25, depending on where you get it and how it's made.

I'd say that you might as well drop your idea of actually being able to wear this hat. With a head size of 7 to 7 1/8, you can find zillions of other vintage stingy brims in your size listed on eBay for less than the cost of a hat stretcher. Many of them will actually be the listed size, too.

One final thought: When you measure your head, you need to do it several times over, measuring at roughly the place where you want the bottom of the sweatband to ride. Keep measuring till you get the exact same measurement three times in a row, as the string trick is a pretty inexact technique. And while you're at it, measure the inner circumference of the hat too, to make sure it's really US size 6 7/8 (21 5/8 inches).

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Taggert]

Mark,
Thank you for the info I will most definitely keep that in mind. how does one measure the inside of the hat I am having a heck of a time keeping the string in place (not sure where my sewing tape measure went...lol)

I will also keep a eye out on ebay and the like, perhaps i'll find something =)

Quick qiestion the hat im wearing in my avatar is my other grandfathers hat i cannot tell what kind it is I think it's a jaxon style (is that a style?) It's made by a company called Newport. Here's some pics:
Clickable thumbnails:

 

[Wolfmanjack]

Welcome to the Lounge.

how does one measure the inside of the hat I am having a heck of a time keeping the string in place (not sure where my sewing tape measure went...lol)

You're right, Taggert. The remaining question is, what indeed is the actual size of your granddad's hat.

I use a belt to measure the inside circumference of a hat. Roll up the belt, place it inside the hat, unroll it until it is snug against the sweatband all around, and then mark the belt where it overlaps. Measure the distance between the two marks with whatever you have handy, e.g., a yardstick.

 

[Taggert]

Jack,

Great tip man I will have to give that a try! I'll let ya know the outcome in a bit.
=D

So noone knows what the brown hat is? I still cant find any like it.

 

[bolthead]

Didn't Panama Bob, or somebody else on their site have a hat sizer you can print out, then cut it out.....place it right over your head to get a pretty accurate measurement. Inches and centemeters. [huh]

 

[thunderw21]

Jack,
So noone knows what the brown hat is? I still cant find any like it.

The style of hat is called a porkpie (because of the telescoping crown and short brim). Jaxon is a modern hat brand, not a style.
It appears to be from the 1960s, possibly 1970s. It's seen quite a bit of use but a good steaming and shaping would bring some life back into it. It appears to have lost its liner, but that's no biggy.
A nice hat with some family history which makes it even nicer.

 

[Taggert]

@Bolthead,

thanks man that helped immensely! If i am right (mind you i did this my self) my head is 22.6 in (57.5cm)around. I believe that puts me at 7 1/4 hat

Measuring the inside of the hat with no liner is actually a pain in the rear..lol I'll give it another go in a bit.

@thunderw21,

Thank you for the info on the hat. Could i steam it myself and if so is there a guide somewhere? If iw as to send it out i would have a new liner and swaetband put in unless that would hurt its value as original. What was the liner for anyways?

 

[thunderw21]

@Bolthead,
@thunderw21,

Thank you for the info on the hat. Could i steam it myself and if so is there a guide somewhere? If iw as to send it out i would have a new liner and swaetband put in unless that would hurt its value as original. What was the liner for anyways?

Sure you can, it's quite easy. All you need is a teapot or regular pot with a lid. Get some water boiling and steam built up, hold the hat in the steam for a few seconds and shape as desired. Experiment with it.

While the sweatband is pretty well used it can still be used just as long as it's not falling apart. Getting a new sweatband and liner wouldn't hurt it a bit, it might actually raise the value a bit. It's not a super valueable hat, being from the 1960s era, but the personal value still remains.

The liner was part decorative, part utilitarian. While a liner makes a hat look 'higher class' and often displays the maker's logo, it also protects the crown felt from sweat and hair goo the wearer might be using. I've come upon quite a few vintage hats with yellowing liners but perfect felt. Some even had protective plastic in the top of the liner.
Lightweight summer hats lack a liner because they would get too hot to wear on a hot summer day. These will often have ventilation holes in the crown as well, such as the 1930s Mallory below.

However, your hat isn't a lightweight summer hat so the liner is missing.

 

[tandmark]

Hi,

Actually, Taggert, if your head measures just slightly more than 22 1/2 inches, your size is 7 1/8. You might find some hats fit better if they're a 7 1/4, but that's more likely to be a variation in how the hats are made than anything else.

Here's a chart so you can check for yourself: http://www.hatsuk.com/hatsuk/hatsukhtml/bible/hatsize.htm

Thunderw21's guess about the hat's age could be right. Porkpies were popular back in the '40s and '50s, much more than later on. Maybe he's judging from the brand (Jaxon), the history of which I know nothing. [huh] If they started in business in the '60s, then his guess has got to be right.

He's certainly right that the hat isn't going to let you retire on the proceeds from its sale. If it shapes up nicely after a little steaming, we're talking $20 give or take on eBay, last time I checked. With the addition of a $40 sweatband and liner, you might make $30 on eBay with it.

Or maybe the prices have indeed risen, and all these numbers could as much as double. As they say, Your Mileage May Vary.

Cheers,
Mark