What makes vintage felt better?

[suitedcboy]

OK, I know that not in all cases is vintage better. My point is why is it that rabbit/beaver blends of old are so nice, and in my experience, only matched by modern 100% beaver.
I might be inclined to say mercury in felting process but some hats I think to be after mercury ended (50'S AND 60'S HATS) are among the ones I'm referring to.
Will our modern blends age to get the feel and hand of our vintage hats?

I have found these observations of mine to be true for dress felts and western felts.
I have 100X 100% beaver, 200x beaver/chinchilla, and 500x beaver/mink Stetson westerns and the feel and hand of the 500X is matched by an old Resistol western 5 star that is not 100% beaver.
The 100X and 200X hats have been pounced and finished extensively and the 500x is a masterpiece of a factory hat so I am not saying these are bad examples. It is just that the tactile feel of the vintage 5 star is most like the 500x if you close your eyes and do a blind test.
I know the X's are WAY from being a standardized scale but I think those of you having vintage amd modern hats both will know exactly what I'm talking about here.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

cue wild speculation re: aged felt, "dead" felt, etc. etc.

I think the simplest answer is we don't know. Probably a combination of factors.

bk

 

[avedwards]

Maybe felting was better then. While some of todays good hatters may be equally good to the hatters of the past, it's possible that their felt is not quite so good. Some hatmaking lounger please correct me, but the hatter doesn't do the felting do they, only the blocking I would have thought? On another thread there was a documentary about a German hatter, and to get good rabbit felt they had to import it from Siberia I think, showing that good felt is not as easy to get hold of these days.

I just personally think it must be more than just aging, as in all the old films you see their hats seem to be incredibly good. In The Big Sleep when Bogart walks in the rain the water just rolls off his hat, rather than soaking into it, showing that even when new these hats were exceptional.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Beware of judging "quality" by how something looks, particularly on film.

Re: water slicking, remember also all the various processes which were employed. There is the obvious mercury treatment, but after banning/abandonment there was also "Cravenette" processing (done by various companies, i've also seen suede jackets processed in this way), Dupont water resistant processing (Lee Hats used this), Aquanised (Adam, IIRC), "Swansback" (Portis), among many others. Stetson must have had a process, but i don't recall the name for it.

I doubt much felt these days is being processed in these, or any, ways.

bk

 

[tortswon]

Life's Mysteries

No one can reasonably explain the process by which wine ages either. Time has a way of changing us subtly but profoundly. As felt, and wine, and we move through time profound, sometimes inexplicable changes occur. I raise the wine issue because I teach about it at a local university and have done a fair amount of reading on the subject. No one yet has come up with a good explanation. We take as a fact that SOME wines improve over time while others do not. I suspect that the same is true with felt. Best, Sam

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I will also mention that i have handled some 1930s hats of what i, with my very limited knowledge of felt production, would describe as very dubious quality felt.

bk

 

[zetwal]

Sam raises a very interesting point, and one that's overlooked because related to the original meaning of the now overused and recontextualized term vintage. A true vintage wine requires a particularly good year of harvest and production by an expert winery, and proper seasoning.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Re: water slicking, remember also all the various processes which were employed. There is the obvious mercury treatment, but after banning/abandonment there was also "Cravenette" processing (done by various companies, i've also seen suede jackets processed in this way), Dupont water resistant processing (Lee Hats used this), Aquanised (Adam, IIRC), "Swansback" (Portis), among many others. Stetson must have had a process, but i don't recall the name for it.

Add to this "Aquashed" (can't remember the maker) and "Water-Block" (Lee)

bk

 

[scottyrocks]

As time marches on, it seems that the quality of just about everything degrades.

And I dont mean just old stuff thats losing its 'hand.' I mean new stuff thats manufarctured. Just about everything we buy today is meant to be disposable. Wasnt this way years ago.

Look at the very specific case of Herbert Johnson, and my apologies to that shop if I've gotten any of this wrong, but Im taking what I remember from some site where I read this.

Some years after Raiders, Indy aficianados wanted copies of the original Raiders hat. Short story, the block used for that hat, the 'Poet,' was 'retired,' and a new block used in its place. Also, they changed felt, or the manufacturer, for whatever reason, maybe because the old felt was no longer available, or too expensive. The result was that it has been said that the quality was not the same as the 1981 hats that were used in the movie.

Can you buy an ultra high quality item today? Sure. But today, high quality is no longer the norm. Its the mark of the wealthy, or collectors, or aficiandos, etc, iow, people who are willing to pay big money for it. Yesterday's 'high end' beaver hat, that no one really made a tremendous big deal over, that may have cost all of $7.50, is now '500x,' and '100% beaver,' with a price to match its Xs.

The point? That things change all the time, due mainly to supply and/or cost issues. Most people want cheap and dont care if its disposable, and most companies want to manufacture a product that will 'pass muster, but no more, because what matters most is the bottom line. Specialist manufacturers are the exception to this rule - VS, Adventurebilt, Buckarooo Hatters, and please dont be offended if I left someone worthy off this small list, are some examples this type of quality-first manufacturer.

 

[Sargon]

I think the answer to that is summed up in three words. Economy of scale. Every year millions of hats were made. The process of factory hatmaking were honed by a century of innovation. Because there were so many hat factories there was more innovation and competition. There were many sources of felt and many more felters all in competition.

 

[Fletch]

Yes to all that.

It's buggy whips, really. Felt hats have disappeared from the well-dressed man's wardrobe to a point where quality is no longer in demand or even widely appreciated. For that reason, the industry economized, and in turn, high qualty felts become a specialty item - over and above top-of-the-line, costing even more than they would otherwise.