What makes the best hats best? An open question to all us snobby hat lovers.

[EricH]

We spend a lot of time discussing particular brands, styles and vintages of hats on this board. We also talk about custom made hats available today. My question though is what are the attributes that make a hat the best of the best. The first thing that comes to mind is the felt. Thick or thin, the high beaver content felts are on the best hats (even if they weren't advertised as so). But what about the other parts of a hat.

What are the materials, installation methods, and features of the best sweats?

What are the materials, installation methods, and features of the best ribbons?

Is there a difference between liners, how and what they are constructed of and installed?

So I open it up to my fellow Loungers especially the pros, what are the devilish details? Oh and please keep it to the details. This is not about which brand hat was/is better at what time in its history.

Eric

 

[Kentucky Blues]

Hats with a cavanagh edge, dense felt, sewn in silk liners, well stitched, soft leather sweatbands, I tend to prefer a fancier bow in the back of the sweat, nice grosgrain ribbon, and double bow, with pleats in the middle

 

[deanglen]

Thin, Tall, Wide, Bound Edge.

dean

 

[metropd]

Thin, Tall, Wide, Bound Edge.

dean

I assume you mean thin band, tall crown, wide brim and well....bound edge?

 

[J.T.Marcus]

Thin felt, with no stiffener. So fine you want to pet it. Leather sweatband instead of fabric. Brim width 2 5/8 (plus or minus a tad). Otherwise, I'm pretty tolerant.

 

[EricH]

Some good comments, but we're trending towards the style/type discussion which is about fashion and personal preference. I'm looking for the nitty gritty, so let me take a stab at my own question.

In the case of ribbons for instance, in my mind a premium quality hat has a ribbon that fits tight at the top and bottom around the crown of the hat. The taller the ribbon and the more tapered the hat, the more difficult that is to achieve. Only the best hatters fit the wide ribbons snug on a tapered crown. The ribbon on a premium hat is finally woven and has a color (and pattern) specifically chosen to compliment or contrast with the felt. It isn't just a plain black or gray (although those are fine too). I also look at the complexity of the ribbon itself. Multiple bows that are well proportioned are trickier than those good old open road styles. The ribbon should match the style of the hat and not look like it was pulled out of a drawer. When it comes to stiching the ribbon, I expect to never see or have to look carefully to see the stiches. On the best hats the ribbon floats on the hat with stiches hidden from view.

Have I missed anything?

 

[metropd]

Thin felt, with no stiffener. So fine you want to pet it. Leather sweatband instead of fabric. Brim width 2 5/8 (plus or minus a tad). Otherwise, I'm pretty tolerant.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[deanglen]

I assume you mean thin band, tall crown, wide brim and well....bound edge?

Yessir.

dean

 

[barrowjh]

The finish (or 'hand'?) of the felt is important to me, and I suspect that is a combined result from both quality of the fur, type of fur, and the amount of sanding. Felt that is relatively thin yet appears 'creamy' or buttery and feels that way also, these attributes add to a 'best' designation. Note that this attribute is separate from the amount of stiffener. There are probably several 'great' combinations, and I have only encountered a very few.

I like a crown that can be rebashed at home with a little steam, and I also like a crown that can be hand bashed (very little stiffener). I own one hat now with too little stiffener - a homberg with a brim so limp it will not hold the Homberg curl! So there is a 'sweet spot' of just enough stiffener in most of the hat, and sometimes very little in the crown.

The edge treatment is important also - plain, over or underwelt cannot be 'best' for me, and it is tough to decide between bound and felted (Cavanaugh) - depends on the hat - I like the way a bound edge, especially a bit wide on the binding, can really dress up a hat.

2" wide roan leather sweatbands seem to be the vintage standard, and I have seen/owned nothing better, but acknowledge that there might be a better (expensive?) sweatband leather.

I agree with the earlier post that stitching quality is a major consideration.

 

[deanglen]

Controversial addendum to criteria

No liner.

dean

 

[Edward]

No liner.

dean

Interesting! I'd always taken a liner to be one of those things that you tend to find on a quality hat, on the basis that it's one of the more obvious things to omit if you're looking to cut corners and make a cheaper hat. Probably one of the better corners to cut, given that it's not visible when the hat is on anyhow.... That said, of course there are exceptions, where the style of the hat omits a liner by design - e.g. hot climate hats which drop the liner aiming for better ventilation... and there will always be some lined hats that aren't that great, while some that aren't are. Personal I like a liner, it's just a nice little touch if done well. I do wish though that something like a depp red or even a black would come more common for this purpose, bearing in mind how impractical white can be in general!

 

[majormoore]

Seems everyone has listed what they consider the perfect hat, what is the price you are willing to spend and how many would you buy in a 5 year time frame?

When you look at the cost to a custom hatter,his cost on the 100% bodies and and all the other items that are needed to make the hat, not counting his labor cost based on the number of hours to make the hat from start to finish, what is a price range that we are willing to pay for what we have stated as the prefect hat?

Mike

 

[K.D. Lightner]

At the $200-plus range, I could buy one a year for 5 years, then I would have everything I want in style and color. Come to think of it, that is exactly what I have, noq, thanks to custom hatmakers.

I like a thin, soft fur felt fedora, soft leather sweat band, thinner ribbon and complemetary to the hat but not contrasting, hardly any taper in the crown and rebashable, and 2 1/2 inches or a little more on the brim.

I like a hat to be rugged enough to stand up to the elements and yet retain a somewhat feminine look. Part of that has to do with color, ribbon, brim, etc.

karol

 

[EricH]

Mike, custom hat making is part of the reason I started this thread. A hat is just a hat unless you know the details of construction. Understanding the features of the best hats makes you an informed buyer whether it be from a hazy Ebay photo or Earl's House of Custom Fedoras. For instance on the topic of sweats.

I agree with others that the better the leather the better the sweat. Whether 2 or less (or more) inches is a better width I have no opinion or knowledge to have one. The unreeded sweats sewn directly to the felt body may or may not be inferior depending on the hat (and the vintage), but when you look at a sweat on a newer (and vintage) hat there are subtle but profound differences. The best of the best have a curved edge like a bells that seats them perfectly on the body. They keep the sewn sweat to reed edge off your forehead. Hence no marks on the skin. And the sewing of the sweat to the body, well if it is not done in a lock stich you better be hoping that the thread doesn't break. Otherwise things will quickly disassemble. And the sweat itself, is it straight up and down or is it tapering a bit so it gently holds my hat right on the sweat spot of my head.

Do these picky details make a difference? Maybe not on some hats, but if someone is sticking a hat under my nose with a $200+ (and +) price tag. I'd like to know that it had details worthy of its price. I ain't cheap, but I won't pay for false value. For all I know, it might be a pretty ribbon on a wholesale body from Shanghai.

 

[majormoore]

$200.00 will not cover the hat blank and other items along with the time needed to build the type hat we are speaking about.

I have been wearing hats a long time that have the sweatband sewn in with a singer 107-1 sweatband sewing machine, which is a chain stitch' and I mean wearing them everyday 8 to 12 hrs a day, and never had one pull out the sweatband due to being sewn in by this type.. What does happen is the sweatbands get wet, then dry and the wet again for years and the sweatbands just seem to crumble.

I think that all the newer hats made by the hat companies over the last 10 years have used a lower grade of sweatband, I have seen hats I have been asked to reshape that have great looking felt showing no signs of wear on the outside, but turn the hat over and the sweatband is stiff as a board and cracks when you open it up.

Maybe the large hat companies should invest in better sweatbands, I believe must custom hatters use the better sweatbands, also untill I have the chance to make a plant tour of a large hat company, I would beat that the bulk of the hats made in the plant are stamped out with some type mold and then passed down into the trim room to have bound edges and sweatbands alon with bows and ribbons placed on then. Maybe HATCO can tell us if they do this or not.

Mike

 

[LEUII]

No liner.

dean

I like a hat without a liner when it is very humid or hot. It makes a real difference. I like the liner in colder weather, a rare commodity down here on the Gulf Coast.

 

[EricH]

Mike, I agree on the price issue for current hats. But this is a price is not a factor discussion. Like all construction details, some will matter more to one person than another. For instance, I might find an old hat with no indication of origin and by checking the details of the sweat installation quickly determine if it was mainstream production, high end production, or hand sewn. Do they all work, sure. But they also reveal the cost of production, level of craftsmanship, and perhaps era of construction.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Boy, is THIS a sticky thread for a custom hatmaker to enter. Oh well, I'll take the plunge.
First and formost is the feel of the felt. The higher grade of felt, the finer the feel. I want my felts to feel "buttery" and that's the target for me. There are others that pounce the hat finer, some iron the crowns, some don't, but it always will come down to feel.
Second would be the other components in the hat starting with the leather ( sweatband). Here, feel also is top priority, along with the structural qualities you mention Erich. You can have the finest leather in the world, but if it's installed crooked, isn't belled to keep the stitching away from the skin, it's just "half done"
I agree with Mike, the singer 107 machine does a good job of holding the sweat in and I own one, but I don't use it because I can't get the feel for what is happening with the hat as it's sewn.
Not only ribbon quality, but placement of it and how it's attatched makes a difference. Modern production hats are sewn through the ribbon without any effort to hide the stitching, just tacked right through the surface. Now, this makes for a fast hat to produce, but reduces the quality factor.

The last ( but not least) factor that I consider important is the initial fit. With doing business over the internet this is perhaps the biggest challenge as the hatter has to rely on outside factors but the best compliment I have ever received was when one client told me that in putting it on, it fealt like it was already broken in.

 

[czack]

It's up to you to decide.

The hat that makes you say: "Man, I look good."

 

[Cat In The Hat]

I know you're talking about felts and other fine craftsmanship details, but what also makes a best hat "best" is if you like it or not. If it's the hat you always reach for when you go out the door, then it's the "best".

Sometimes, it's not so much about felts and craftsmanship as it is about how you feel about the hat.

Hats aren't like other pieces of clothing. They're something much better. You have to love that hat and make it 'you'.

I wear a hat all the time. I mean, ALL the time. I am now known to my friends as "The Hat". At some point, you will come to the realization that you really do love wearing a hat and that will become part of your personality to people. So, wearing a hat that you love.... that becomes part of 'you' is what makes it special and "best".

But buying a good hat to begin with is probably a smart way to go.