What did the film stars of the 1920s-1930s make of the 1950s-1960s?

[BlueTrain]

While it is possible that some who never married may have been homosexual, the ones I referred to in my wife's family lived with a sibling. I do agree to some extent that a certain window of time existed for a woman to be married. But I'd also point out that these rules, like many others, seemed to only apply to women. I also agree with the previous post that application of all of these social conventions varied by class and to some extent, by location, meaning city or country. Social conventions in really rural areas was never particularly rigid and not especially conservative, either. In fact, there were movies made before 1950 and even later in which the curious mating habits, shall we say, of the rural folk were the subject of the movie. Social stigmas were ignored by some people who had virtually no social standing to lose.

Another factor, more significant in the distant past than more recently, was the fact that proper young ladies could not marry just anyone. Not only would a father be expected to approve and literally give permission for any perspective suitor, the daughter would probably never even meet and consider worthy of marriage someone beneath her social level. The social hierarchy has always been as real in this country as elsewhere but the levels themselves are less defined and usually more fluid than they are in other places. That was even true to some extent in the U.K., compared with other countries in the past. But the past is past.

On the other hand, it is entirely possible that earlier marriages were a little more common in the past because fewer people attended college and instead went directly into the work force and got with the program right away.

 

[LizzieMaine]

One thing that's interesting is that the whole idea of "marrying for love" is a very recent thing. Most marriages prior to about a hundred and fifty years ago were either out of necessity or somehow family/business/politics related. The idea of romantic love as a common basis for marriage is very much a creation of the Victorian era, and it was by no means fully established well into the twentieth.

 

[MisterCairo]

One thing that's interesting is that the whole idea of "marrying for love" is a very recent thing. Most marriages prior to about a hundred and fifty years ago were either out of necessity or somehow family/business/politics related. The idea of romantic love as a common basis for marriage is very much a creation of the Victorian era, and it was by no means fully established well into the twentieth.

Two words: Charlotte Lucas -

 

[Fading Fast]

One thing that's interesting is that the whole idea of "marrying for love" is a very recent thing. Most marriages prior to about a hundred and fifty years ago were either out of necessity or somehow family/business/politics related. The idea of romantic love as a common basis for marriage is very much a creation of the Victorian era, and it was by no means fully established well into the twentieth.

Are you saying that up until 150 years ago, marriage for love was not a meaningful part of many different cultures / countries / regions? To be sure, it might be only within "one's group," but did marriage for love or with love as a meaningful component not exist prior to 150 years ago?

 

[LizzieMaine]

It wasn't a common thing, no. Most people married because they *had to* -- for economic security, for farm labor, for social advancement, to satisfy family obligations,, or for political convenience. The idea of "falling in love with someone" and marrying out of that passion was not a major consideration for most people for the vast majority of human history. It was only during the 19th century that it became a mainstream, common thing in Western culture. Stephanie Coontz talks about this in her books "The Way We Never Were" and "Marriage: A History."

Well into the 20th Century there were religious groups in the United States that took was what basically a 17th Century Puritan view against "marrying for love." The idea among such groups was that marriage was, as the apostle Paul suggested, a state spiritually inferior to singleness, and that one should only marry if one couldn't control one's sexual needs. In such cases, such groups advised that the matter should be "disposed of in all candor" between mates, with romance having nothing to do with the situation.

 

[Stanley Doble]

Mark Twain commented in the 1870s that adultery or keeping a mistress was much less common in the US than in, say, France which puzzled some people. They put it down to easier divorce laws in the US but Twain said, where love is, there is no room for the seducer. Since most marriages in the US were love matches, or at least partners who chose each other, no wonder there was more fidelity than in countries where arranged marriages were the rule.

It is also true that the rate of marriage was lower during the depression because many people could not afford to get married, while during the war millions of men were sent overseas. This resulted in a drought of marriages and births in the 30s and early 40s, and a boom in marriages and births in the late 40s and 50s.

 

[BlueTrain]

I'm sure that's true, too, but yet families were actually smaller than they had been when the parents had been children, or so it seems. My father was one of thirteen. I wonder if rural families were usually larger.

 

[Inkstainedwretch]

I think part of it had to do with urbanization. When most Americans lived on farms, more children meant more unpaid farm hands. Urban families didn't require a lot of labor and pretty much restricted themselves to replacement level. I knew few families growing up with more than three children. Some religions forbade birth control but that didn't cut much ice. My parents were Catholic but they called it at two kids because the Pope didn't live in Texas.

 

[BlueTrain]

People that live in town have more things to do at night, perhaps.

 

[LizzieMaine]

My grandfather was one of eight kids. My grandmother gave birth to two and the doctor told her a third would probably kill her. So for the next forty-one years, my grandfather slept in the kitchen.

 

[BlueTrain]

I mentioned that my father was one of thirteen. He was the youngest as well as the last to die. There was another one after him, however, but it didn't survive. Same thing happened with my step-mother, my mother having died at age 49. My step-mother's last children, which were twins, didn't live.

 

[EngProf]

My parents had twelve brothers and sisters (father's side) and ten (mother's side). They were both farm families - preWWII in most cases.
When they all moved to town (during WWII and shortly after) they had 0-4 kids in my generation, with most on the low side. The exception to the small family transition was the only sister who stayed on the farm, and they had 10 kids.