What Are You Reading

[LizzieMaine]

One of the points Henley discusses that I do agree with is his view that men, in general, tend to prefer aggressive comedy -- material that usually features some one individual as the specific butt of the joke -- whereas women tend to prefer humor dealing with the general absurdity of a particular situation or circumstance. There are certainly exceptions to this -- Joan Davis, to name a figure of Henley's time, was a very aggressive, broad comic as were Patsy Kelly and Martha Raye, and a bit later, Lucille Ball. If there's a difference between what they did and what similar male "top banana" comics did it's that the women had to make *themselves* the butt of the gag for it to work, whereas a male comic doing similar material would attack a straight-man or a stooge.

This is one reason, I submit, why Jack Benny stood out as such a transgressive figure in the comedy of the Era -- he was a man performing comedy in the style of a woman, and his rather effeminate stage persona only underlined this departure from the aggressive male-coded approach. By doing this, he diverted audience expectations in a fundamental way every time he walked onto a stage -- and as Henley argues, that diversion is the essence of comedy: lead the audience to expect one thing -- and then switch it.

Henley also observes that women enjoy seeing the tables turned on men -- not so much specific individuals, but men as a class, and material in which stereotypical male behavior leads to table-turning he believes women find particularly enjoyable. This theory would explain one reason why "Dopey Dad" sitcoms like "The Life Of Riley" and "Blondie" became so popular in the 1940s, and why the same themes are still popular today -- women have always made up the majority of listeners/viewers for such programs.

In general, though, I think women have a more subtle sense of humor than men, and tend to appreciate the type of situational and verbal humor that the more joke-oriented men tend to find dull. There's a reason why "Vic and Sade," the most subtly-humorous radio program of the entire Era, aired almost exclusively amidst the daytime soap operas, and had a fanbase that was overwhelmingly female.

 

[Fading Fast]

One of the points Henley discusses that I do agree with is his view that men, in general, tend to prefer aggressive comedy -- material that usually features some one individual as the specific butt of the joke -- whereas women tend to prefer humor dealing with the general absurdity of a particular situation or circumstance. There are certainly exceptions to this -- Joan Davis, to name a figure of Henley's time, was a very aggressive, broad comic as were Patsy Kelly and Martha Raye, and a bit later, Lucille Ball. If there's a difference between what they did and what similar male "top banana" comics did it's that the women had to make *themselves* the butt of the gag for it to work, whereas a male comic doing similar material would attack a straight-man or a stooge.

This is one reason, I submit, why Jack Benny stood out as such a transgressive figure in the comedy of the Era -- he was a man performing comedy in the style of a woman, and his rather effeminate stage persona only underlined this departure from the aggressive male-coded approach. By doing this, he diverted audience expectations in a fundamental way every time he walked onto a stage -- and as Henley argues, that diversion is the essence of comedy: lead the audience to expect one thing -- and then switch it.

Henley also observes that women enjoy seeing the tables turned on men -- not so much specific individuals, but men as a class, and material in which stereotypical male behavior leads to table-turning he believes women find particularly enjoyable. This theory would explain one reason why "Dopey Dad" sitcoms like "The Life Of Riley" and "Blondie" became so popular in the 1940s, and why the same themes are still popular today -- women have always made up the majority of listeners/viewers for such programs.

In general, though, I think women have a more subtle sense of humor than men, and tend to appreciate the type of situational and verbal humor that the more joke-oriented men tend to find dull. There's a reason why "Vic and Sade," the most subtly-humorous radio program of the entire Era, aired almost exclusively amidst the daytime soap operas, and had a fanbase that was overwhelmingly female.

Do you think these male-female different likes and tendencies in humor have a biological component or are they all culturally driven?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Probably a mix. Testosterone generally makes males aggressive, but society teaches them how to acceptably channel that aggression. Aggressive humor provides a socially-acceptable release.

Women, on the other hand, have been taught by society to repress their aggressions to the point where even aggressive humor tends to be frowned on -- a current comic like Sarah Silverman or Wanda Sykes takes far more grief from tongue-clucking social critics than a "gentler" female comic like Paula Poundstone or Ellen DeGeneres, even though the more aggressive female comics are doing material no different than that being done by contemporary male comics. The aggressive female comics of the Era were frequently cast almost as "un-women" -- Patsy Kelly needed Thelma Todd as a traditionally-feminine co-star and foil in order for her loud slam-bang style to work for 1930s movie audiences, and Joan Davis usually appeared as a parody of traditional femininity, essentially as a female female impersonator.

That's the thing about comedy. It's not just about making people laugh, it's about understanding exactly what it is that they're laughing *at.*

 

[shoelessjoe]

I am rereading Norman Maclean’s, A River Runs Through It & The USFS 1919: The Ranger, The Cook & a Hole In The Sky, two amazing novellas that never, ever get old.

Those two, and Antony Bevoor’s, Stalingrad: The Fateful Siege: 1942-1943.

 

[Fading Fast]

I am rereading Norman Maclean’s, A River Runs Through It ...

I've only seen the movie - and love it - how does the book compare?

 

[shoelessjoe]

I've only seen the movie - and love it - how does the book compare?

Well, Fading Fast, I will go out on a limb and suggest that it may be one of the - if not the - finest book you have never read.

It’s a common notion that movies generally pale in light of namesake novels, but I actually enjoyed and still do enjoy the movie - I’ve lost count as to how many times I’ve watched it! That said, the book ascends to an entirely different level ... reading it is akin to an experience.

Richard Friedenberg, primary script writer for the River Runs’ movie, said this about Norman Maclean: " ...after he finally retired from the university, Norman began to write a small book ... For the first time, he faced the pain and turned it into words. And that seemed to release the sadness that had by then become so deeply a part of him. He had stood dry-eyed at the police station, at the coroner's inquest, at the funeral. Now, almost four decades later, as he read the beautiful, hopeful ending of a River Runs Through It to his daughter, he began to cry for the first time. 'The past is everywhere around me, he said almost at the end of his life. 'I came to terms with it by making it into art.' "

Lost in the long shadow cast by the ‘River Runs Though It’ novel are two equally (again) “amazing” short stories which follow Maclean’s primary novel & one of them (USFS 1919’), unbeknownst to many, also became a movie, featuring Sam Elliot as the toughened crew boss.

Maclean’s novels are often regarded as fictional, but this is because the chronology of actual people, places & events is compressed in the stories.

Lastly, the framed movie poster in my den reads: A River Runs Through It - The story of an American Family ... I say that to say this, the book is so much more than just a treatise on fly fishing.

 

[Fading Fast]

Well, Fading Fast, I will go out on a limb and suggest that it may be one of the - if not the - finest book you have never read.

It’s a common notion that movies generally pale in light of namesake novels, but I actually enjoyed and still do enjoy the movie - I’ve lost count as to how many times I’ve watched it! That said, the book ascends to an entirely different level ... reading it is akin to an experience.

Richard Friedenberg, primary script writer for the River Runs’ movie, said this about Norman Maclean: " ...after he finally retired from the university, Norman began to write a small book ... For the first time, he faced the pain and turned it into words. And that seemed to release the sadness that had by then become so deeply a part of him. He had stood dry-eyed at the police station, at the coroner's inquest, at the funeral. Now, almost four decades later, as he read the beautiful, hopeful ending of a River Runs Through It to his daughter, he began to cry for the first time. 'The past is everywhere around me, he said almost at the end of his life. 'I came to terms with it by making it into art.' "

Lost in the long shadow cast by the ‘River Runs Though It’ novel are two equally (again) “amazing” short stories which follow Maclean’s primary novel & one of them (USFS 1919’), unbeknownst to many, also became a movie, featuring Sam Elliot as the toughened crew boss.

Maclean’s novels are often regarded as fictional, but this is because the chronology of actual people, places & events is compressed in the stories.

Lastly, the framed movie poster in my den reads: A River Runs Through It - The story of an American Family ... I say that to say this, the book is so much more than just a treatise on fly fishing.

Thank you. I'm sold and just bought a used copy from Amazon. My reading queue is long, but I will report back after I've read it (and it will probably cut the line a bit in the queue as I'm excited to read it).

 

[Woodtroll]

Thank you. I'm sold and just bought a used copy from Amazon. My reading queue is long, but I will report back after I've read it (and it will probably cut the line a bit in the queue as I'm excited to read it).

I agree with ShoelessJoe - you can't go wrong with the book. The "other" story in there (that is titled, "Logging, ****, and Your Pal, Jim" is pretty good, too. These stories are a true snapshot into times past.

I first came to know Norman Maclean's writing through a book he wrote called "Young Men and Fire", which is a story of the Mann Gulch fire of 1949 and some of the controversy surrounding it. It is a very well done book, but different than the three stories already mentioned. You will like it if you have a knowledge of or interest in wildland fire.

 

[AmateisGal]

Just finished Jane Thynne's fifth book in the Clara Vine series, Solitaire. Pretty good, but not one of the better ones. That's the thing with series - some are good, some aren't.

Started Laura by Vera Caspary, the book the movie is based on. The movie is probably my all-time favorite classic movie.

 

[LizzieMaine]

"Street Gang: The Complete History of Sesame Street," by Michael Davis.

You wouldn't think a hippy-dippy super-funky 1960s show like Sesame Street would have anything to do with the Era, but you'd be surprised. The people who created and produced the program were raised in the progressive culture of the 1930s and 1940s, and much of that comes thru in this exhaustive look at how the program came to be. It's largely the story of two people -- Joan Ganz Cooney, a sharp-minded woman who rose from a tedious job at NBC in the 1950s to being one of the key movers in educational television in New York by the mid-1960s, and Jim Henson, who grew up fascinated by radio comedy and found a way to carry over that imagination-driven approach to humor thru puppetry.

Much of the rest of the "Sesame Street" staff came to the program along another route -- via the Treasure House. Many of the original writing and production people were veterans of "Captain Kangaroo," who either grew tired of or were fired by the often-mercurial Bob Keeshan, but who remained dedicated to that program's essential message of respecting its child audience. One of these writers was Tom Whedon -- son of radio writer John Whedon (The Great Gildersleeve) and father of TV writer Joss Whedon (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, etc.). A more remarkable professional family tree you'll never find.

There's not a lot of backstage dirt to be raked here -- most of the Sesame folk were pretty clean-cut people. The most tragic story has to be that of Northern Calloway, the pleasant young actor who played Mr. Hooper's helper David -- who fell into a spiral of severe mental illness in the 1980s that ended with his early death. It's a sign of how dedicated the producers were to their performers that they kept Calloway on the show for nearly a decade after his problems became apparent, but you're left wondering if that really was the best thing for him, given the indifferent medical care he seemed to be getting. The circumstances leading to the death of Jim Henson are also tragic -- the son of a Christian Scientist, Henson had little experience with medicine or doctors, and so put off dealing with a simple strep infection until it flared out of control and killed him. Henson's increasing ambivalence about and frustration with his involvement with children's television during the 1980s is also something I hadn't known about him. Henson's frustration came to a head even as the Disney corporation maneuvered to buy out his company, leading to much legal and political wrestling between the Mouse and the Children's Televison Workshop over the rights to the "Sesame Muppets."

I wasn't a Sesame Street kid - but my sister was, so I was exposed to enough of it that I could follow what was going on in the book. Even if you didn't watch the show, this book is an interesting look at what you might consider the last gasp of an idealistic New Deal way of looking at media and the world.

 

[Fading Fast]

"Flight from Berlin" by David John

There is an entire genre of historical mystery fiction centering around Nazi Germany of which this is a solid "B" entry.

It wraps a mysterious dossier - desperately being sought by the SS which, we learn, contains defamatory to Hitler documents (spoiler alert: Hitler liked to canoodle with men and the term in '30s Germany for a gay man was a "warm boy") - an English newspaper man, a cocky American female swimmer (and former gold-medal winner) and a Jewish-German fencing champion and her wealthy Jewish family around the '36 Olympic Games in Germany.

Incredibly, the Olympic Committee and the provenance of history saw fit to award the 1936 Olympic Games to Germany prior to the Nazis coming to power. Proving that there is a cosmic force at work with Olympic locations, the 1940 games were originally awarded to Tokyo but were eventually cancelled.

Mixing in historical figures - top Nazis, Dr Hugo Ekhart inventor of the Hindenburg, US Olympic Committee President Avery Brundage and several American and English diplomats - with the fictional ones, the books blends a fair amount of history with a by-the-numbers mystery and a decent feel for the period to engage a fan of this genre but not create any converts. Read it if it's your thing; pass if it's not.

 

[Julian Shellhammer]

Seabiscuit, by Laura Hillenbrand. About 40 pages in and enjoying it very much.

 

[Fading Fast]

Seabiscuit, by Laura Hillenbrand. About 40 pages in and enjoying it very much.

An outstanding read - loved it from the first to last page. A very Fedora Lounge book.

 

[AmateisGal]

"Flight from Berlin" by David John

There is an entire genre of historical mystery fiction centering around Nazi Germany of which this is a solid "B" entry.

It wraps a mysterious dossier - desperately being sought by the SS which, we learn, contains defamatory to Hitler documents (spoiler alert: Hitler liked to canoodle with men and the term in '30s Germany for a gay man was a "warm boy") - an English newspaper man, a cocky American female swimmer (and former gold-medal winner) and a Jewish-German fencing champion and her wealthy Jewish family around the '36 Olympic Games in Germany.

Incredibly, the Olympic Committee and the provenance of history saw fit to award the 1936 Olympic Games to Germany prior to the Nazis coming to power. Proving that there is a cosmic force at work with Olympic locations, the 1940 games were originally awarded to Tokyo but were eventually cancelled.

Mixing in historical figures - top Nazis, Dr Hugo Ekhart inventor of the Hindenburg, US Olympic Committee President Avery Brundage and several American and English diplomats - with the fictional ones, the books blends a fair amount of history with a by-the-numbers mystery and a decent feel for the period to engage a fan of this genre but not create any converts. Read it if it's your thing; pass if it's not.

Glad you liked it! I enjoyed it. Nothing spectacular, but keeps you turning the pages.

 

[Fading Fast]

Glad you liked it! I enjoyed it. Nothing spectacular, but keeps you turning the pages.

Funny, my girlfriend asked me if she should read it and I told her, yes, if she wanted a decent "page turner" of a Nazi-era spy novel.

 

[Touchofevil]

Funny, my girlfriend asked me if she should read it and I told her, yes, if she wanted a decent "page turner" of a Nazi-era spy novel.

Okay, so now I am going to have to look for it on Amazon and put it on my incredibly long list of “To Read.”

 

[Fading Fast]

Okay, so now I am going to have to look for it on Amazon and put it on my incredibly long list of “To Read.”

It's enjoyable, but not a "must read" by any stretch.

 

[Fading Fast]

"Masked Women" by Rex Beach, 1927

This is my third Rex Beach book - a popular novelist of the first several decades of the 20th Century. This one is a serious of long short stories focusing on women surviving in the sketchy parts of America - small carnivals, dive bars, brothels, traveling preacher acts, etc.

As with all his novels (or the three I've read so far), they are solid page turners that still entertain today, but also provide a wonderful window into those times from an observer of the period without any of our modern biases mixed in. To understand a period, it is important to read books and other writings from that period as, as noted, they aren't adulterated by modern opinions and prejudices.

 

[Harp]

Defense Presence and Participation: A Procedural Minimum for Batson v. Kentucky Hearings
Brett M Kavanaugh, Yale Law Journal 99,#4/Jan 1990

An interesting note penned by the nominee.

 

[Touchofevil]

Ross MacDonald's
The Zebra-Striped Hearse