We Pick Up Where They Left Off

[scotrace]

This has been forming in my mind for awhile, but I'm still not quite finding the words to express it. Having watched Ken Burns' The War series, it seems even more true that those of us who seek a return to the style and dignity and manners of the Golden Era... redeem the century in some ways.

Imagine those returning veterans, having seen the very worst that any man can see and endure, beginning to rebuild their lives with a full appreciation for the freedoms we take for granted. They wanted to give their children a good life, free of the horrors they had known in the Great Depression and World War II.

But the world somehow got away from them. In ways they did not comprehend, their children were dissatisfied. They turned away from all their fathers represented, called them idiots, grew their hair, and turned the culture into one of youth worship, free love and drugs. Their fathers were unable to understand it.

Now, we have the benefit of knowing the good that came of that time of upheaval. Now equal rights are extended to all, and we understand more about our natures.

But we can also pull all that was good from the early 20th century, and view those of the Greatest Generation with the respect they deserve, and more fully appreciate the good things their world stood for, while culling out the bad.

We can appreciate that the women we share our workplace with have a right to be there and compete with men, yet we can still hold the door for them. The best of both worlds.

While the world went mad for them and never settled down, and they watched as their best years were stolen from them, here's hoping we can find that settled world they expected and wanted, and even more, here's hoping we can appreciate it, and all they bought for us with their blood and, later, their nightmares.

People like us, here, pick up where they involuntarily left off, before the world went mad.

 

[KL15]

Great idea sir. But in today's world of the extermination of free speech under the guise of political correctness, the left over feelings of "me first" that is a product of the same generation that you described having children, and the general lack or fortitude and belief that America is a special place, I can't see it happening. I've been in love with the vintage culture for years. And in that time I felt alone untill I found Classic Style Magazine which led me to here and realized there are others that have the same appreciation I have. My soul was saved. However, even within the vintage culture we still cannot completely allocate ourselves to all that the "Greatest Generation" was about. Even now I see problems with calling a spade a spade. I hope from a cultural standpoint, we are moving in a direction of the WWII time. Not the "Peace in our time" era that was bestowed by PM Neveille Chamberlain. The "Vintage Generation" or "Greatest Generation" knew what was right, and what was wrong. And they had no problem saying both. Untill we break the chains on ourselves, I fear we cannot "pick up where they left off."

 

[Twitch]

I have interviewed and spoken at length with veterans and others that lived through WW II and find there is nothing they could not do if they put their minds to it. They were the epitome of "can do" attitude. Then they came out of the war with a momentum that economically served the country for decades hence with their dedicated work ethic in society that literally rebuilt our culture and strengthened our nationalism.

The veterans and civilians in war-affected countries were tough as nails too. They preservered some even in the face of defeat to rebuild their nations and fuel economies to compete in peacetime as never before.

People of the WW II generation from all over the world ARE the greatest generation to yet walk this planet.:eusa_clap

 

[Doctor Strange]

Nobody respects the "greatest generation" more than I do - both my parents served during the war (Dad was a sgt. in the Army Air Corps, Mom was a sgt. in the Marines), and they're still here as a shining example of having risen to all their challenges of their long lives: their Depression childhoods, running a business together for over 50 years, dealing with enormous changes in technology and society, etc.

But I don't buy the argument that they are inherently better people than any other generation. I also don't believe (perhaps atypically for the FL) that we are on some kind of overall downwards trajectory as a society. The good old days were certainly different, but they were really both good and bad.

Every generation plays the cards that they're dealt. That my parents' generation got 30s/40s/WWII and their children got 60s/70s/Vietnam was just luck of the draw... Sure, the response of each generation were different, but then so were the times.

I guess what I'm bristling at is the overglorification of a group of folks who simply dealt with the challenges of their times. Basically, we all have to do that, even if it's without the moral clarity, obvious heroism, and stylistic panache of the golden era.

 

[Fletch]

<applause> to scotrace

:eusa_clap Well said - well reasoned. I hope we can redeem at least some small jewels of the century just past.

For my part, I work to preserve and promote the musical culture, especially that part of it lost in the foggy no-man's land between Memory and History. But I do a fair bit of reading and bullshooting, so pardon a few extraneous musings.

scot mentions dignity. KL mentions "me-first-ism." Twitch mentions "can do" and the work ethic. How do they all fit together?

To me - the "me-first" mentality is the end product of a good idea too heedlessly applied - the inherent worth and dignity of every person - which doesn't necessarily extend to their acts or words, which can be base, thoughtless, and hurtful.

Similarly, the "can do" spirit of pulling together in a great cause shaded over too easily into a work ethic that wagged the dog: every cause is great, trust all authority, don't question, fall in, eyes front.

A holdover of the Greatest Generation was the militarization and regimentation of our lives.
A byproduct of the Me Generation was individualization to the point of isolation and loss of community.

I sometimes daydream that if we had tried picking up where we left off - where we really left off - in, say, the summer of 1939, and been smart about it, taking the goods and leaving the bads and not going too far out into left or right field, we might have saved reinventing ourselves a lot of wheels, which might still have carried us safely and reliably forward even now.

 

[dakotanorth]

I guess what I'm bristling at is the overglorification of a group of folks who simply dealt with the challenges of their times. Basically, we all have to do that, even if it's without the moral clarity, obvious heroism, and stylistic panache of the golden era.

I think the "overglorification" falls under the "Nostalgia" category. It's easy to look back at the past, isolate what you like and don't like, then choose to focus on whatever you loved from that time.
I love the clothing, music, and cars from the 1950's, but I keep forgetting it was the "Red Scare" era. McCarthy-ism, H-Bomb, etc etc. The good parts usually serve as a counterbalance to the bad parts, which you don't always see.
Personally I think a lot of people look back at WWII with such fondness because it was the last time we fought a war for the right reasons.
OPINION! My opinion!
As much as it did revolve around politics, it was our reaction to it. When a foreign country starts bombing people, you get a pretty clear picture of who's "right" and "Wrong".
However, after the war, we kept going with that mentality. Even today our nation approaches issues with the mindset that we are "Right". Europeans jokingly refer to the US as the World Police, and that's because we always intervene and interfere, even when we're not really needed or wanted.
WWII was a big +1 in our book, but we need to reflect on it and be ever-vigilant about WHY we were right.

 

[Fletch]

What's more, moral clarity ain't all it's cracked up to be.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

To me - the "me-first" mentality is the end product of a good idea too heedlessly applied - the inherent worth and dignity of every person - which doesn't necessarily extend to their acts or words, which can be base, thoughtless, and hurtful.

Similarly, the "can do" spirit of pulling together in a great cause shaded over too easily into a work ethic that wagged the dog: every cause is great, trust all authority, don't question, fall in, eyes front.

A holdover of the Greatest Generation was the militarization and regimentation of our lives.
A byproduct of the Me Generation was individualization to the point of isolation and loss of community.

Bravo, Fletch! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap


The generation that fought in the U.S. Civil War was arguably as great, if not greater, than the WWII generation. And the American people --white and black, rich and poor, educated and illiterate-- who fought in our war of independence were truly extraordinary.


That said, it annoys me when the Baby Boomers get full credit for many of the reforms that members of the Greatest Generation actually began, fought for, bled for, lost their livelihoods for, and worse. The fight for civil rights was the Greatest Generation's fight: many of its leaders were black veterans of the War. The struggle for sexual equality in the workplace was pushed hard by women who'd toiled during WWII. The Asian-American and Chicano identity movements were spearheaded by ex-WWII servicemen.


Our Greatest Generation, while extraordinary, was also prone to paranoia (and perhaps inevitably so, given its experiences). Think of the "blacklists" of the late 1940s and early '50s. Think of the anti-Jewish, anti-Communist, anti-Catholic (and armed!) paramilitary groups of the early 1960s. Many of these paramilitary groups were headed by ex-WWII military men, some of them of very high rank.


.

 

[Gingerella72]

That was very eloquently put, Scotrace. :eusa_clap

I wish more people thought that way, especially from my generation (I'm 34 - the MTV generation). Too many people today see simple things like manners and etiquette and ethics as antiquated ways of the past that are too silly to be bothered with.

I've always been somewhat of an old soul, which I attribute to my parents who had me late in life. They were on the cusp of "the greatest generation"; born in 1931, had my dad been 10 years older, he most likely would have served in WWII. They were able to teach me about the good parts of their youth and gave me an appreciation for that era that my peers could never understand.

I like the idea of embracing the best of both worlds. I do so in my everyday life. I can't live without the internet, but I'd much rather watch an old black & white movie from the 30's or 40's than see some of the crap that Hollywood puts out today.

 

[jamespowers]

That was very eloquently put, Scotrace. :eusa_clap

I wish more people thought that way, especially from my generation (I'm 34 - the MTV generation). Too many people today see simple things like manners and etiquette and ethics as antiquated ways of the past that are too silly to be bothered with.

I've always been somewhat of an old soul, which I attribute to my parents who had me late in life. They were on the cusp of "the greatest generation"; born in 1931, had my dad been 10 years older, he most likely would have served in WWII. They were able to teach me about the good parts of their youth and gave me an appreciation for that era that my peers could never understand.

I like the idea of embracing the best of both worlds. I do so in my everyday life. I can't live without the internet, but I'd much rather watch an old black & white movie from the 30's or 40's than see some of the crap that Hollywood puts out today.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Gingerella72]

I guess what I'm bristling at is the overglorification of a group of folks who simply dealt with the challenges of their times. Basically, we all have to do that, even if it's without the moral clarity, obvious heroism, and stylistic panache of the golden era.

IMO, I think the reason the "golden era" generation tends to be overglorified and looked upon with rose-colored glasses is because that was the last generation where "old fashioned" values were, well....valued.

That's not to say there weren't plenty of things wrong back then, far from it. But where suceeding generations have made great strides in equal and civil rights, among many things, I can't help but feel that something inherently good has been lost along the way.

We like to think of ourselves as a more tolerant and educated society now; but we're also a more disrespecting and narcisstic one.

 

[dakotanorth]

Old fashioned values

IMO, I think the reason the "golden era" generation tends to be overglorified and looked upon with rose-colored glasses is because that was the last generation where "old fashioned" values were, well....valued.
That's not to say there weren't plenty of things wrong back then, far from it. But where suceeding generations have made great strides in equal and civil rights, among many things, I can't help but feel that something inherently good has been lost along the way.
We like to think of ourselves as a more tolerant and educated society now; but we're also a more disrespecting and narcisstic one.

I still think it's because during the 60's everything was questioned. When JFK was shot I think America had a collective Nervous Breakdown of sorts; suddenly people realized that evil was possible anywhere, anytime. Then with Vietnam people saw "All-American Boys" being shipped off to a country to fight for...? By being good, wholesome, upstanding citizens, they were sent to their deaths.
I look at the hippies as people who went on a CULTURAL strike. It was their way of saying 'we won't live/work under these conditions'.
Problem is, we haven't come back around to sift through the mess and find what is salvageable. Time and culture push forward, so going back never makes sense. Hopefully, in time, people will realize that "New" doesn't always equate to "Better".

 

[Dr Doran]

Problem is, we haven't come back around to sift through the mess and find what is salvageable. ... Hopefully, in time, people will realize that "New" doesn't always equate to "Better".

That's what we are doing here on the Lounge.

 

[Paisley]

Someone on the Ken Burns series (at the end) said that there is a spiritual poverty today that there wasn't then.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Scotrace
I can understand where you are coming from and appreciate your thoughts. I had many of the same feelings after watching The War series. I was one of those born shortly after WW2. Grew up in the '50s & '60s..... watched the disatisfaction and rebellion happen..and was apart of it. Unfortunately...it has expanded into grey areas of confusion..even concerning what is right and wrong. Sadly I think that it may be,in part, because we have not yet sacrificed in our daily lives..even close to those who went before. The "Me' generation seems more concerned if their Latte is cold.....a missed call on the cell....who's an American Idol....or more excited and intrigued with what they admiringly call "dissent". It can happen to the best of us....although we may one day realise that we are still all in this together. I can't imagine what it will take to awaken us. I fear something more horrible than my parents faced......
HD

 

[KL15]

As was stated many times earlier, I too love the can do attitude. And, for the record, I want us to "pick up where they left off." But as a nation, do you think we can, do you think we will? Can we see something greater than ourselves? I have no doubt all of the fine folks I've had the pleasure of meeting and getting to know could accomplish this. But, as much as most of us don't want to admit it, the nation, the world, is not like us. I want to see this happen, I'm just not sure what the likelyhood of it is. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Well, we'll just have to do the best we can with the cards dealt to us. Get up, stand up, and agitate, agitate, agitate! Speak out in public -- join (and found) organizations that are out there, in the real world, making changes.


And don't just lead: teach people how to be leaders themselves. Organize community meetings; put pressure on local politicians to attend them and to give assurances; support the ones who help you, and lean on the ones who don't. Use voting power as a carrot and a stick.


In short, be activists -- like members of the Greatest Generation were! And if you don't want to be an activist, then don't complain when the world leaves you behind, sitting on a stump, scratching your head and muttering "Things aren't the way they should be!"


.

 

[jamespowers]

Well, we'll just have to do the best we can with the cards dealt to us. Get up, stand up, and agitate, agitate, agitate! Speak out in public -- join (and found) organizations that are out there, in the real world, making changes.


And don't just lead: teach people how to be leaders themselves. Organize community meetings; put pressure on local politicians to attend them and to give assurances; support the ones who help you, and lean on the ones who don't. Use voting power as a carrot and a stick.


In short, be activists -- like members of the Greatest Generation were! And if you don't want to be an activist, then don't complain when the world leaves you behind, sitting on a stump, scratching your head and muttering "Things aren't the way they should be!"


.

I nominate you to do this as I have been doing it for the last 20 years.

 

[kampkatz]

Personal accountability just isn't emphasized in this ultra-litigious society. Yes, old-fashioned values were not perfect, but people generally took more responsibility for their actions. Acknowledging a Creator who expects us "creatures" to make the best of our world(while respecting others rights to believe how they choose) was (and is) in inseparable part of the Greatest Generation.

 

[jamespowers]

Personal accountability just isn't emphasized in this ultra-litigious society. Yes, old-fashioned values were not perfect, but people generally took more responsibility for their actions. Acknowledging a Creator who expects us "creatures" to make the best of our world(while respecting others rights to believe how they choose) was (and is) in inseparable part of the Greatest Generation.

I think personal responsibility on its own is a major part of that generation and the reason for it being great. No excuses, no complaining, no suing, no risky behavior and a host of other things. Just do it, get it done and get past it.
Sometimes I think it takes more energy to make excuses and procrastinate than the actual job or action. [huh]

Regards,

J