Vintage Dobbs Questions

[marcstck]

Hello, folks. I'm new here. Let me congratulate you all for maintaining such a great site. The information here is invaluable, and the passion you folks display is palpable.

I recently acquired two vintage Dobbs fedoras. I'm wondering if you guys could help me date them, and maybe impart any other bits of knowledge about them you may have.

The first hat is a Dobbs Admiralty, black with a 1 7/8" brim. This hat is an absolutely pristine condition, almost appearing to be new old stock. There is a paper information tag on the inside of the hat that has a price of $28.50 on it. I'm guessing the style of the hat, and the price, would place it somewhere in the mid to late 60s. Am I in the ballpark?

The second hat is a Dobbs Golden Coach Fifty, also in fantastic shape. I have to say that I think I got a great deal on this hat, as I purchased it for about $25 shipped. To my relatively untrained eyes, this had looks extremely impressive. The felt is soft and supple, the brim stingy at 1 1/2 inches.

Does the "Fifty" imply that this hat cost $50 back in the day? I'm thinking that it dates from the late 50s, and I'd think that at that time 50 bucks for a hat was a pretty steep price. Again, are my instincts correct?

Thanks in advance for whatever information you guys can provide. I've really enjoyed browsing the site, and plan on coming back for more...

The Admiralty

The Fifty

(edited to add photos)

 

[RBH]

Welcome to the Lounge!!! I cant help ya much on the Dobbs except that they are great hats.
One other thing... we like photos here on the lounge!
Sooooo ... if you are able post a few and you may get a little more info on those fedoras.
Again welcome!

 

[Brad Bowers]

Dobbs introduced the Golden Coach model in 1962, and yours has telltale indicators -- the taller brown sweatband with cloverleaf bow -- that it's from probably within a year or two of then, though I suppose they could have used these at a later date on their better hats. Yes, it cost $50, but $50 hats weren't unheard of in the late 1940s and early 1950s. These were custom hats that the manufacturers offered. This one is still one of their higher quality hats.

The Admiralty is newer and could even be from the 1970s, but most likely is from the late 1960s.

Brad

 

[marcstck]

Thanks for that info, Brad. Knowing the history of these things is half the fun. Are there any resources on the Internet other than this site where one might find such information?

Sounds like the Fifty is just about as old as I am. I was born in 1963, and according to the info you provided it seems like the hat might have been also...

 

[Spellflower]

While we're on the subject...

Any help dating this hat would be appreciated. It also has a high brown sweatband with a cloverleaf ribbon, so am I to presume it's also from the early 60's? By the way, the crown is 5" and the brim is about 2 3/8". Click the pic to see my original post about this hat.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Are there any resources on the Internet other than this site where one might find such information?

This is the best place, and about the only place. There are little bits here and there, but nothing like the one-stop-shopping of the Lounge.

Any help dating this hat would be appreciated. It also has a high brown sweatband with a cloverleaf ribbon, so am I to presume it's also from the early 60's? By the way, the crown is 5" and the brim is about 2 3/8". Click the pic to see my original post about this hat.

The cloverleaf bow on the back of sweatband was used throughout the 1950s by at least some of the Hat Corp. brands: Cavanagh, Dobbs, C&K, and maybe even Knox and Dunlap. I haven't been able to determine how far back the usage goes, but it doesn't seem to have been used in the '30s.

The Dobbs Guild Edge Twenty can date anywhere from 1944 onward, but judging by its proportions, your hat looks to be 1950s -- say, circa 1955 to be on the safe side.

Edit: Actually, the more I look at it, the more inclined I am to think it's older -- that crown just looks too tall. Late '40s, early '50s?

I feel like I'm training for "Antiques Roadshow!" If they only needed hat appraisers...lol

Brad

 

[Spellflower]

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Brad, many thanks for sharing your knowledge! It's most appreciated! In case you want to show off some more, what do you know about Whippets?

 

[Brad Bowers]

Not very much, I'm afraid. I'm a Hat Corporation of America guy, for the most part, and that's where my research is focused. Is this like a Chevy/Ford kind of distinction?[huh]

Brad

 

[Spellflower]

Huh, I never realized that all thos classic brands were owned by one company even back in the day, or that it was a Chevy/Ford kinda deal. So Hat Corporation of America owned Cavanagh, Dobbs, C&K, Knox and Dunlap, and competed with Stetson. Then, at some point, they became known as Hatco, and bought Stetson?

 

[Brad Bowers]

Sort of. All of the Hat Corp. brands came under one umbrella in 1932. Before that, Knox and Dunlap were a separate company.

Hat Corp. was always the second largest company, behind Stetson. Stetson sold out and closed their Philadelphia factory in 1971, and Hat Corp. closed up their Norwalk, CT, shop in 1972, ending the era of large hat companies. I don't remember offhand the path of ownership for the Stetson licensing rights, but the rights to Hat Corp.'s former brand names went through several owners, until they wound up under HATCO today, who also has the Stetson rights.

But yeah, in a way, the hat company stories parallel the autmotive companies stories. Except cars have yet to become culturally irrelevant.

Brad

 

[Spellflower]

True, cars aren't as superannuated as fedoras, but the way they were made fifty years ago is. There's no such thing as an "American" car now- all cars are made of parts produced all over the world, by international corporations.

It's just too bad that when Hatco's quality slipped, there were no Japanese companies to step in and give them a kick in the pants!

 

[jamespowers]

The Admiralty is newer and could even be from the 1970s, but most likely is from the late 1960s.

Brad

I dunno. See that computer generated tag in the hat? Even 1970s might be too early for that hat. Those tags and that liner were common when I was buying Dobbs hats in the 1980s. [huh]

 

[jamespowers]

Edit: Actually, the more I look at it, the more inclined I am to think it's older -- that crown just looks too tall. Late '40s, early '50s?

Exactly. The liner gives it away as 40s or early fifties at the latest if they were using up all the old liners.
$20 for a hat back then was not exactly the cheapest thing on the block when Adams were selling for $7.50 or less. The Cavanagh Edge--that they called the Guild edge gives it away as a higher quality hat.
Nice hat there. You can always send it to me if its a 7 5/8.

 

[jamespowers]

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Brad, many thanks for sharing your knowledge! It's most appreciated! In case you want to show off some more, what do you know about Whippets?

What do you need to know?
They had brim sizes that went from 2 5/8 down to less than 2 in the ridiculous Whippet II. The pre Whippet II hats had bound brim edges wide ribbons and came in a variety of colors gray, blue, green, tan, brown and a few others I can't remember now.
The whippet dates probably back into the 30s as a name with Stetson but the one we remember most was from the 40s through the 1950s. The earlier whippets were sort of a different animal and I have yet to actually get my hands on one. So I really can't comment on the earlier ones other than what I find in the ads.
How's that?

Regards,

J

 

[jamespowers]

True, cars aren't as superannuated as fedoras, but the way they were made fifty years ago is. There's no such thing as an "American" car now- all cars are made of parts produced all over the world, by international corporations.

It's just too bad that when Hatco's quality slipped, there were no Japanese companies to step in and give them a kick in the pants!

Well, they do have Toyo Hats ( I think that is the name anyway). They license the Borsalino name and produce horrible stuff with that name for the Asian market. Toyo was making those silly paper hats before they got in bed with Borsalino.

 

[Brad Bowers]

See that computer generated tag in the hat? Even 1970s might be too early for that hat.

My eyes aren't that good! I do have an appointment with the eye doctor next week, though...

Good point, J.

 

[Spellflower]

James, thanks for your analysis! I felt like my Dobbs was earlier than 60's, but I'm still a novice here. Sorry, it's a perfect 7 3/8, and since it's the hat I've been looking for since I started looking, it's NOT FOR SALE! Thanks for your interest, though.

Regarding Whippets, I'm specifically interested in dating mine (click the pic and scroll down for more):



As for Japanese manufacturers, I wish Toyo made as good a product as Toyota!

 

[jamespowers]

My eyes aren't that good! I do have an appointment with the eye doctor next week, though...

Good point, J.

It was nothing really.

 

[jamespowers]

James, thanks for your analysis! I felt like my Dobbs was earlier than 60's, but I'm still a novice here. Sorry, it's a perfect 7 3/8, and since it's the hat I've been looking for since I started looking, it's NOT FOR SALE! Thanks for your interest, though.

Regarding Whippets, I'm specifically interested in dating mine (click the pic and scroll down for more):



As for Japanese manufacturers, I wish Toyo made as good a product as Toyota!

Art gave you some good information there. I can't really add anything. It looks like my previously mentioned 1951 whippet ad in shape and style.
Yeah, toyo makes shantung hats too. They are basically paper hats made to look like straw.

 

[astaire]

The Dobbs Guild Edge Twenty can date anywhere from 1944 onward, but judging by its proportions, your hat looks to be 1950s -- say, circa 1955 to be on the safe side.

Edit: Actually, the more I look at it, the more inclined I am to think it's older -- that crown just looks too tall. Late '40s, early '50s?

I feel like I'm training for "Antiques Roadshow!" If they only needed hat appraisers...lol

Brad

Brad, you are one of the very few who are well qualified to be on that show :eusa_clap

Just wondering why you mention the year 1944 for Dobbs Guild Edge Twenty?

Thanks.