Vintage Car Thread - Discussion and Parts Requests

[Carl Miller]

Bit of an update on the Plodge -- the brakes are fine, no leaks, master cylinder is in excellent condition, and wheel assemblies just needed bleeding and adjustment. The tires will be here and installed on Monday. There's a bit of an issue with the engine though -- even after a full flushing of the fuel lines and replacement of filters and plugs it's still missing on one cylinder, and when they pulled the plugs, there seemed to be something loose in that cylinder. A broken piston ring or valve spring? A bit of carbon? They don't know yet.

Their guy who knows older engines wasn't working today so I couldn't pump him for more details, but hopefully he can look at it on Monday and let me know what's going on.

You could always pull the plug out of the offending cylinder and looking down in there with a pen light tosee if the top of the piston is chewed up. Is the plug damaged at all from something smashing into it? what did the old plug look like? Tan? black? sooty? oily?

Did you have the cap/rotor/plug wires replaced along with everything else? I once had an engine that had an intermittent miss and it turns out that one of the brand new plug wires was bad. Stuff happens.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Marvel Mystery Oil is fantastic stuff, Sea Foam, too for cleaning out the fuel system, since you're having the white smoke issue.

I once ran both through my old Caprice at the same time and revved the daylights out of it. I've never heard my dad shout so loud in my life. I gave no thought to the fact that I was pouring soot all over the side of their 2 year old log house, via my exhaust, wasn't expecting it lol The car ran better and cleaner after that, though.

One of the Neighborhood Codgers suggested a shot of Marvel Mystery Oil mixed in with the fuel might loosen a stuck valve? I've got a can of that stuff sitting in the garage, but it's probably as old as the car, and I hesitate to try it...

Incidentally, there's nothing like having an Old Car in your driveway to attract the attention of Neighborhood Codgers.

 

[Stanley Doble]

Put a shot glass of MMM in the gas tank every time you fill up. It will help clean and free up your motor and protect the rings and valves from wear.

For you Plymouth and Dodge fans here is a link to the site P15D24 which caters to owners of 1946-48 Plymouth and Dodge cars. They are somewhat liberal and take in cars from the late 30s, early 40s, up to the early 50s and also postwar pickup trucks.

There is lots of good info in the maintenance and technical tips section and lots of sage advice in the Forums.

http://www40.addr.com/~merc583/mopar/framesets/welcomeframeset.html

 

[noonblueapples]

I will also recomend sea foam or MMM. Also an ethanol treatment can be a good idea as Maine gas and carburetors don't mix well. Wondering if you should be using a lead substitute (MMM in the gas might be enough lubrication?)

 

[Stanley Doble]

Lead additive not necessary. All Chrysler built engines of that period had hardened valve seat inserts and hard valves. Low compression, made to run on no lead or low lead gas of 70 octane or less. The heavily leaded high octane gas did not become available until 1954 or 55, along in there.

Some owners of prewar cars actually add kerosene or diesel to lower the octane. They find their cars start easier, run smoother and cooler, and develop more power. It also helps prevent vapor lock.

Gas without alcohol is best, but we don't always have a choice. When they went over to gasahol in the 80s a lot of older cars had problems with the fuel pump and carburetor. The alcohol dissolved the rubber parts and the shellac that sealed the cork floats in the carb and gas tank gauge sender.

In the last 30 years practically all old cars have had the carb, fuel pump etc. rebuilt and all the new ones are made to stand up to the gas of today.

I recommend some kind of upper cylinder lubricant just because this was a known wear area in older cars. It is not necessary, your engine will go 80,000 miles or more without it, but it will reduce wear.

 

[David Conwill]

Manual choke, which I only need to use for the first start of the day. No black smoke, but quite a bit of white -- but what's spitting out the tailpipe definitely isn't water.

You may want to double check that pushing the choke knob in actually fully opens the choke. A few months ago I discovered that the choke on my Falcon was sticking about one quarter closed once I pushed it in, and it wrought havoc with my fuel economy and spark plugs for a while.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The new tires are finally on the Plodge and I took it out for a shakedown run this afternoon -- had it out on US 1 for the first time, and got it up to about 35mph without disasters. The valve issue still hasn't been resolved -- the guy who was supposed to work on it has been out sick -- but I wanted to be sure it was going to handle all right with the new rubber. No complaints there -- the ride was very very smooth, the steering very easy. When I got home I opened the hood to have a look at the engine and there was a pair of wire strippers sitting on top of the block -- the ride was so steady it didn't vibrate off.

I put ten gallons of gas and 4 oz. of MMO in the tank, and it's smoking a bit still, but there's no spitting out of the tailpipe that I could see.

There's an odd sound when I accelerate, like an old man with loose dentures sipping hot soup. I'm not sure what to make of this.

Brakes are still spongy, despite their assurance that, mechanically, they're fine -- they still need to be pumped to get the pedal firm. They've bled them repeatedly, so I think they need either major adjustments or possibly new hoses?

Meanwhile, I've found a radio -- a new-old-stock in the box Sears Silvertone under-dash mount set of appropriate vintage. This will save the trouble of having to find the appropriate dash grille for the standard Mopar set, and can always be removed if someday one does come along. It works, but needs re-capping, which I can easily do myself.

It's going back over to the shop tomorrow to hopefully get the valve seen to, and possibly further brake work, but progress is being made.

 

[Stanley Doble]

"The new tires are finally on the Plodge and I took it out for a shakedown run this afternoon -- had it out on US 1 for the first time, and got it up to about 35mph without disasters. The valve issue still hasn't been resolved -- the guy who was supposed to work on it has been out sick -- but I wanted to be sure it was going to handle all right with the new rubber. No complaints there -- the ride was very very smooth, the steering very easy. When I got home I opened the hood to have a look at the engine and there was a pair of wire strippers sitting on top of the block -- the ride was so steady it didn't vibrate off. "

Typical of a well tuned flathead six or eight. At car shows I have seen a row of nickels balanced on top of an idling engine.

"I put ten gallons of gas and 4 oz. of MMO in the tank, and it's smoking a bit still, but there's no spitting out of the tailpipe that I could see. "

With a little exercise the engine may run better and better, many engines do after being out of commission for years.

"There's an odd sound when I accelerate, like an old man with loose dentures sipping hot soup. I'm not sure what to make of this."

Sounds like the noise made by an un muffled carburetor. Is the air filter in place and fastened down solidly? If it is loose there is way to fix it, just ask.

"Brakes are still spongy, despite their assurance that, mechanically, they're fine -- they still need to be pumped to get the pedal firm. They've bled them repeatedly, so I think they need either major adjustments or possibly new hoses? "

Could be adjustment or could be they need to be bled. But you say they have been bled. Did they get all the old fluid out of the system? It should be changed every few years anyway, the system bled until fresh fluid comes through.

You already know that after a brake overhaul or new shoes, you need a major adjustment. After that, periodic minor adjustments to take up wear. When properly installed and adjusted the brakes should be firm and stop the car with authority. Strong enough to skid all four tires with a firm push. The major adjustment requires a special measuring tool that few mechanics have ever seen.

Meanwhile, I've found a radio -- a new-old-stock in the box Sears Silvertone under-dash mount set of appropriate vintage. This will save the trouble of having to find the appropriate dash grille for the standard Mopar set, and can always be removed if someday one does come along. It works, but needs re-capping, which I can easily do myself.

It's going back over to the shop tomorrow to hopefully get the valve seen to, and possibly further brake work, but progress is being made."

I'm glad the car is working so well for you. Some repairs are inevitable on a car that old. Did you look at the P15D24 web site? The old timers there are a wealth of information.

I have a line on a 1954 Packard Patrician sedan for $3500 do you think I should buy it?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Sounds like the noise made by an un muffled carburetor. Is the air filter in place and fastened down solidly? If it is loose there is way to fix it, just ask.

Ah. The air cleaner unit, one of those oil-bath deals, is just sort of sitting on top of the carbeurator -- there doesn't seem to be any screw connection that I noticed other than the wingnut that holds the lid on the bowl. If there's a way to secure it, please advise! I thought it sounded like air sucking in from somewhere.

Could be adjustment or could be they need to be bled. But you say they have been bled. Did they get all the old fluid out of the system? It should be changed every few years anyway, the system bled until fresh fluid comes through.

You already know that after a brake overhaul or new shoes, you need a major adjustment. After that, periodic minor adjustments to take up wear. When properly installed and adjusted the brakes should be firm and stop the car with authority. Strong enough to skid all four tires with a firm push. The major adjustment requires a special measuring tool that few mechanics have ever seen.

They bled it several times, but I'm not sure if they got all the old fluid out. They seem concerned they might be a bit over their head with the brakes, but I found a discussion of major adjustments on the p15-d24 website, printed it out, and left it on the seat along with their wire stripper when I dropped the car back off tonite. If they aren't willing to go further with it, there's a couple of other guys locally I'm going to try. Unfortunately, the local guy who really would know this car died last winter -- one of those knobby little old-time gas station guys. If worse comes to worse, I can always ask over at the Transportation Museum and see if they have any recommendations.

I have a line on a 1954 Packard Patrician sedan for $3500 do you think I should buy it?

A friend of mine down in Connecticut has a Packard of that vintage -- he says you need to have the right attitude to own a Packard, or it doesn't work. He took a friend and me for a ride in that car, screaming along at 70mph along a two-lane state road, while telling us, with great relish, the story of the Connecticut Woodchipper Murder Case. I presume this illustrates the attitude required to own a Packard.

 

[jamespowers]

I have a line on a 1954 Packard Patrician sedan for $3500 do you think I should buy it?

That depends. Does it have the swan hood ornament?

 

[David Conwill]

I think it's a cormorant. I've always kind of wanted a '51-'54 Packard. They're under appreciated for what look to be handsome, well-built cars. They're my favorite Packards since the beginning of the pontoon-fender era.

 

[BigFitz]

That depends. Does it have the swan hood ornament?

Very nice. Is that your friends from Tipp City?

 

[Stanley Doble]

That depends. Does it have the swan hood ornament?

Packards do NOT have a swan hood ornament. It was always referred to as a Cormorant in Packard literature, unless you are into heraldry in which case it comes from the Packard coat of arms where it is called "a pelican in her piety". Both cormorant and pelican are correct but never swan.

By the way.... nice Patrician. It would look the same as the one I am interested in, if you painted it black and left it outside for 40 years.

 

[jamespowers]

Very nice. Is that your friends from Tipp City?

Nah, David has a Lincoln Navigator.

 

[jamespowers]

Packards do NOT have a swan hood ornament. It was always referred to as a Cormorant in Packard literature, unless you are into heraldry in which case it comes from the Packard coat of arms where it is called "a pelican in her piety". Both cormorant and pelican are correct but never swan.

By the way.... nice Patrician. It would look the same as the one I am interested in, if you painted it black and left it outside for 40 years.

I have one lying around here somewhere and it looks more like a swan but ok. Maybe they would have sold more if they called it a swan. lol

Left outside for 40 years!? I don't know if you want to tackle a project that big.

 

[Stanley Doble]

"Ah. The air cleaner unit, one of those oil-bath deals, is just sort of sitting on top of the carbeurator -- there doesn't seem to be any screw connection that I noticed other than the wingnut that holds the lid on the bowl. If there's a way to secure it, please advise! I thought it sounded like air sucking in from somewhere."

The wing nut holds the top of the air cleaner onto the base. The base is held onto the carburetor with a special band type clamp. This clamp has a long wing nut on it for tightening purposes.

The band or clamp has a < shape. The top of the carb and the bottom of the air cleaner have a matching <. When you put them together they go something like this:

<< >>

The clamp squeezes the carb and air cleaner together. After many years of use the band can get worn and loose. The cure is to squeeze it together very slightly. Either clamp it in a vise or gently tap tap tap all around with a hammer. You only need to tighten it a tiny bit, then it will hold tight.

On some models there is a strut from the head to the side of the air cleaner. Look to see if there is a bolt hole in the air cleaner. The strut is a flat strip of steel with a bolt hole at the bottom and a slotted hole at the top. The slotted hole allows the air cleaner to be lifted off after loosening the bolt.

If you go to this page you will see 2 versions of the air cleaner, the mesh type at the top and the oil bath in the 2nd picture. On the oil bath note the wing nut made of bent wire directly above the fuel line on the carb. This is the screw that tightens the band or clamp. You can also see the steel strut that holds the air cleaner steady. This is important, when the engine is running the weight of the air cleaner will work the clamp loose if the strut is not holding it steady.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/flat.html


"They bled it several times, but I'm not sure if they got all the old fluid out. They seem concerned they might be a bit over their head with the brakes, but I found a discussion of major adjustments on the p15-d24 website, printed it out, and left it on the seat along with their wire stripper when I dropped the car back off tonite. If they aren't willing to go further with it, there's a couple of other guys locally I'm going to try. Unfortunately, the local guy who really would know this car died last winter -- one of those knobby little old-time gas station guys. If worse comes to worse, I can always ask over at the Transportation Museum and see if they have any recommendations.



A friend of mine down in Connecticut has a Packard of that vintage -- he says you need to have the right attitude to own a Packard, or it doesn't work. He took a friend and me for a ride in that car, screaming along at 70mph along a two-lane state road, while telling us, with great relish, the story of the Connecticut Woodchipper Murder Case. I presume this illustrates the attitude required to own a Packard."

Ha ha ha I hope he doesn't drive like that all the time. A Packard always struck me as the kind of car that would join the Masons and vote Republican if it could.

 

[Stanley Doble]

I have one lying around here somewhere and it looks more like a swan but ok. Maybe they would have sold more if they called it a swan. lol

Left outside for 40 years!? I don't know if you want to tackle a project that big.

The car belongs to a mechanic who rebuilt the engine, brakes, etc and has it running perfectly but couldn't care less about external appearances.

I have known the car since he bought it about 5 years ago. At that time I wanted it in the worst way but he wouldn't sell and I couldn't find a decent one within 1000 miles. Now he wants to sell and I'm not sure I still want one. Human nature is a funny thing.

 

[jamespowers]

The car belongs to a mechanic who rebuilt the engine, brakes, etc and has it running perfectly but couldn't care less about external appearances.

I have known the car since he bought it about 5 years ago. At that time I wanted it in the worst way but he wouldn't sell and I couldn't find a decent one within 1000 miles. Now he wants to sell and I'm not sure I still want one. Human nature is a funny thing.

Well then buy it before the Fast and Loud crowd get ahold of it and screw it up for posterity.

 

[Stanley Doble]

I think it's a cormorant. I've always kind of wanted a '51-'54 Packard. They're under appreciated for what look to be handsome, well-built cars. They're my favorite Packards since the beginning of the pontoon-fender era.

I agree. You have to be a millionaire to afford a prewar Packard and the 3 tone, tail finned 55 -56 models have a following. The 1949 - 54 models are still cheap and they are the last Packards with the straight eight engine. Packard introduced the first mass produced straight eight luxury car in 1923 and it was their mainstay right through the classic era.

 

[BigFitz]

The car belongs to a mechanic who rebuilt the engine, brakes, etc and has it running perfectly but couldn't care less about external appearances.

I have known the car since he bought it about 5 years ago. At that time I wanted it in the worst way but he wouldn't sell and I couldn't find a decent one within 1000 miles. Now he wants to sell and I'm not sure I still want one. Human nature is a funny thing.

Geez, if it's mechanically sound and the body is fairly solid(you didn't mention the interior's condition), $3500 sounds like a deal to me.