Vicuna and Shahtoosh hat felt

[Drdan]

I've seen hats offered in beaver on the internet, often followed by varying numbers of x's... Is this the finest hat felt available? Are there even higher quality hat felts, like vicuna, or even shahtoosh?

Vicuna is significantly softer than cashmere, and shahtoosh is noticeably softer than vicuna. Shahtoosh is now illegal to harvest and own. Was it ever used as a hat felt?

 

[hatsRme]

I believe Alan has (had?) a Vicuna, Churchill 100, if memory serves.

Not available today, to my knowledge.

Alan's treasure...

 

[ingineer]

Vintage Silhouettes offers a very high grade felt
Legacy grade with Mink, just over a thousand dollars
http://vintagesilhouettes.com/feltcolor/
Vicuna was banned in the USA for several years

 

[Drdan]

Vintage Silhouettes offers a very high grade felt
Legacy grade with Mink, just over a thousand dollars
http://vintagesilhouettes.com/feltcolor/
Vicuna was banned in the USA for several years

There must be a reason why mink was chosen over softer furs, perhaps price or the inherent fragility of the fur itself. Vicuna is presently legally obtained from protected flocks and sold in the U.S. and elsewhere. I wonder if it would make a good hat felt material. It's a very nice jacket material. Zilli, Brioni , and Kiton all make wonderful vicuna jackets and topcoats.

 

[navarre]

I have rebuilt a Vicuna Churchill 100. Tough as nails while trying to re block it. It was soft but had a very short smooth finish, so it would be hard to say if I thought it was exceptionally softer than beaver.

As a side note, I do have a source for cashmere bodies and I have run them by many customers in a blind test format. Everyone has preferred the beaver felt. I feel that there IS a reason that the hat industry has revolved around beaver. It really is the king of felt as far as hat are concerned. Cashmere does have one benefit, in that they sheer the cashmere as opposed to skinning the beavers. So if you have an ethical problem with hats, it's a great alternative.

 

[alanfgag]

The Neiman-Marcus hat was marketed as Beaver 100 with vicuna. How much vicuna is in the felt mix is anyone's guess. My guess is not too much. Its role may have been to separate the NM exclusive offering from the other 1950s-60s one hundred dollar suitcases hats. The hat is very finely pounced with a softness to the touch. But it is not a soft hat.

 

[Drdan]

Thank you navarre. Interesting information... All furs must have their pros and cons. Beaver must have been found to have the most favorable qualities, along with a more reasonable cost. Beaver's good enough for me, but I'd prefer it from a vintage hat source.

The company where I'm purchasing some hat bands from offers a 1000X Stetson Diamante Hat Made With Premium Chinchilla and Beaver felt. The hat must really be soft. The price not so much...

http://www.yeehawcowboy.com/1000X-S...um-Chinchilla-Beaver-Premium-collection-1.htm

 

[besdor]

Borsalino sells a hat made from Vicuna. Its very soft. Their best hat is made from Deer felt in one color. It is called Cervelt. Its very soft. I haven't seen a mink felt hat in a long time but im sure it could be done. That would be the best fur that I could think of. I'm sure Fepsa could do it .

 

[navarre]

Thank you navarre. Interesting information... All furs must have their pros and cons. Beaver must have been found to have the most favorable qualities, along with a more reasonable cost.

This is what I meant by King of felts. Certainly wasn't implying that there is not a softer felt. I think that the overall qualities of beaver are what make it the quality staple that it has always been.

 

[Drdan]

The Neiman-Marcus hat was marketed as Beaver 100 with vicuna. How much vicuna is in the felt mix is anyone's guess. My guess is not too much. Its role may have been to separate the NM exclusive offering from the other 1950s-60s one hundred dollar suitcases hats. The hat is very finely pounced with a softness to the touch. But it is not a soft hat.

That is one incredible looking hat! It just oozes quality, so much so that you'd instinctively want to touch it. Look at the flawless stitching on the sweatband; that's art...

Needless-Markups prices their luxury items to whatever the market will bear. Vintage is certainly the way to go. Is the hat strictly a "collection item", or do you occasionally wear it? I'm sure you get lots of complimenbts for it.

 

[ingineer]

There is a difference the vicuna made into a wool and the beaver made into a felt.
In a hat only the short underbelly fibers are used.
Goodness i know how good a vicuna topcoat from many decades ago was but it would i think be terrible by itself into a hat.
Economics does play into this. Plus sometimes the best is a blend of things IMHO
Being in Roma you should look for a pre-war Borsolino if you want the best
I am certain the experts will chime in.
Edit they already have

 

[Drdan]

Thank you for the specific Borsalino information, besdor. I'll be placing more specific words in the search engines now! Too bad they don't have yard sales here like they do in the states.

 

[tonyb]

... The hat is very finely pounced with a softness to the touch. But it is not a soft hat.
...

It's a point I've made on numerous occasions. There are soft hats with rough finishes and stiff hats with soft finishes. I've made hats from thick 100 percent beaver Western bodies with very smooth, soft finishes but which were stiff enough to pound nails with. (Okay that's a bit of an exaggeration, but they were every bit as stiff as bowlers.)

 

[Rogera]

That is a stunner Alan! Beautiful finish.

 

[Drdan]

There is a difference the vicuna made into a wool and the beaver made into a felt.
In a hat only the short underbelly fibers are used.
Goodness i know how good a vicuna topcoat from many decades ago was but it would i think be terrible by itself into a hat.
Economics does play into this. Plus sometimes the best is a blend of things IMHO
Being in Roma you should look for a pre-war Borsolino if you want the best
I am certain the experts will chime in.
Edit they already have

I bet you're right about the underbelly fibers.

Hopefully I can find some exceptional pre-war Borsalinos here. Seems like the market is much more in demand in the U.S. I was given two internet sources for vintage Borsalinos by an Italian FL forum member, and I was told to be patient... It will prove to be well worth the wait if I can find a vintage hat resembling a Bellagio's geometry with superior workmanship and materials, in my favorite color.

 

[mayserwegener]

I have rebuilt a Vicuna Churchill 100. Tough as nails while trying to re block it. It was soft but had a very short smooth finish, so it would be hard to say if I thought it was exceptionally softer than beaver.

As a side note, I do have a source for cashmere bodies and I have run them by many customers in a blind test format. Everyone has preferred the beaver felt. I feel that there IS a reason that the hat industry has revolved around beaver. It really is the king of felt as far as hat are concerned. Cashmere does have one benefit, in that they sheer the cashmere as opposed to skinning the beavers. So if you have an ethical problem with hats, it's a great alternative.

This doesn't apply to Velours even today. The highest quality were majority Hare. In many cases felts were blends. Also in my opinion the change in pickling methods had a bigger impact on less feltable furs.

 

[alanfgag]

That is one incredible looking hat! It just oozes quality, so much so that you'd instinctively want to touch it. Look at the flawless stitching on the sweatband; that's art...

Needless-Markups prices their luxury items to whatever the market will bear. Vintage is certainly the way to go. Is the hat strictly a "collection item", or do you occasionally wear it? I'm sure you get lots of complimenbts for it.

I wear this hat on occasion. It is a little large on my head. I have handled a number of 100s including several Stetson 100s. Most date from the waning years of the American hat manufacturing industry (mid 1950s to mid 1960s). I have resold all that I've purchased with the exception of this NM example. I prefer the characteristics of earlier hats.

 

[ingineer]

Doctor;
You might want to check these guys out, esp since i remember you being a 61
I have one hat coming from them , but was recommended by Sr. Tanto in Italy
http://www.cappelleriamelegari.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=155_81&products_id=3034

 

[alanfgag]

This doesn't apply to Velours even today. The highest quality were majority Hare. In many cases felts were blends. Also in my opinion the change in pickling methods had a bigger impact on less feltable furs.

Virtually all of the vintage hats posted here that claim significant beaver composition (Stetson 7X, Stetson 100) are postwar production. Stetson produced clear beaver hats earlier in the 20th Century. They were at the top of the price pyramid. Unlike the clear nutria hats below them, which show up for auction with some regularity, the clear beavers from before WWII are rarer than hens teeth. As they were expensive and would likely have survived special occasion wearing, I'm guessing that very few were sold.

 

[Drdan]

Doctor;
You might want to check these guys out, esp since i remember you being a 61
I have one hat coming from them , but was recommended by Sr. Tanto in Italy
http://www.cappelleriamelegari.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=155_81&products_id=3034

Thanks, Richard! I found Melegari doing a basic search of Borsalino on Google. They have an internet presence here in Italy also. They have many models which probably aren't available in the U.S. I just purchased a "Safari Country". It was 155 Euro, a price which might reflect that it's a leftover from the 2014 fall/winter season.

I liked the Sarari Country's style, the "bargain" price, and the fact that the leather hat band did not have the commonly found Borsalino medallion on it. That's a gorgeous model you chose; it's the basic geometry I prefer myself.

Daniel