Value of this Duke Kahanamoku shirt?

[repeatclicks]

The auction is overwith, so I felt its safe for me to post the link to this extraordinarily rare shirt. The auction was closed early.

Sun Surf did a repro of this exact shirt, and to find a Duke Kahanamoku in deadstock condition is rarer than hens teeth! What do you ladies and gents feel this shirt is really worth on a good day?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140341885317&_trksid=p2761.l1259#ht_2509wt_941

 

[Geesie]

Clearly it's not worth $160.

 

[repeatclicks]

Clearly it's not worth $160.

Witty responses need not apply. Im looking for a genuine response and came here hoping to find it, so everyone else, form an orderly queue of knowledgeable, informative responses.

Muchly appreciated!

 

[reetpleat]

wow. Surprising. But I guess the economy is putting a real drag on spending.

I would have bought that for the price if I had seen it.

But no where are you better able to gauge somethings true value than an auction for a well listed, popular item on ebay.

 

[Tomasso]

Witty responses need not apply. Im looking for a genuine response and came here hoping to find it, so everyone else, form an orderly queue of knowledgeable, informative responses.

[bad] Don't get pushy, Buddy Boy!



Just for that I'm withholding my knowledgeable and informative response for 72 hours. :rage:

 

[dr greg]

amazing

I can't believe that passed in, I've seem them go for 3 times that, but the market is what the market will bear so that's what it's worth now...wish I'd seen it when it was listed.

 

[cookie]

The Great Man Down Under 1915 - The Legacy

http://www.mountainman.com.au/the_duke.html

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~russo/pics2/duke.jpg

The statue we erected to him at Freshwater Beach:

http://www.walksydneystreets.net/photos/freshwater-kahanamohu-statue-n.jpg

 

[Geesie]

I can't believe that passed in, I've seem them go for 3 times that, but the market is what the market will bear so that's what it's worth now...wish I'd seen it when it was listed.

That, essentially, is my point.

The intrinsic value of the shirt is about five bucks, as a covering for the torso.

Beyond that, it's what the market will bear which is highly erratic in uncertain economic times.

What it's worth to any given person is unknowable, since emotional value varies from person to person.

So all we really know is that it's not worth $160 right now. It may be worth twice that next month. Who knows?

Such is the antiques/collectibles market.

 

[Guttersnipe]

It's a Sun Surf...

...at least that's what I thought when I saw this auction before it closed. Sun Surf does a "top shelf" line where the reproduce the original labels, tags, and do a very convincing looking box as well.

I've not see their packaging for this particular design, but that's what I assumed it was. I might have been wrong, but if I was, so were all the high-rolling collectors as well, since nobody seemed to want it.

That said, though, $160 is a fair price for the Sun Surf Exclusive line (or whatever they call it - I can't remember).

 

[Geesie]

To continue to expound, because I like to,

To someone who thinks it's an attractive shirt, it's worth x
To someone who collects vintage hawaiian shirts and knows the rarity and quality of this piece, it's worth y
To someone whose father wore this as a favorite shirt, it's worth z
To someone who sells vintage items on eBay and wants a certain profit margin, it's worth w

Those are all different numbers.

 

[pdxvintagette]

Yes, Geesie, you have made your point.

The question being asked is incorrect, I think.

The question is not "what is the value" but rather "is the shirt authentic or not?" Because until that is answered, there's no reason to asking ESTIMATED MARKET VALUE. I saw this also, and automatically assumed it was a Japanese reproduction, no matter what the seller says.

My best friend owns a number of Sun Surf shirts - they look like deadstock originals, particularly the limited edition line. And before Sun Surf started marking the limited shirts, there were problems with dishonest sellers offering them as originals.

It is POSSIBLE that this is original, but highly unlikely. There's a number of VERY, VERY experienced buyers of Hawaiiana and Hawaiian shirts on ebay. These are high-spending, knowledgable and respected collectors/resellers. I'm sure they are intimately aware of each and every reproduction that has been made. And if this was NOT a reproduction and in fact an authentic shirt... we'd more than likely have seen some very, very impressive bidding at the end.

What is really funny, honestly, is that if the seller had manned up and listed it as as a limited edition repro ... it most likely would have sold at the starting bid. That is a reasonable - and fairly consistent - market value for the older retired Sun Surf designs.

Also, in order to avoid responses such as the above, the question should never be "what is x worth" ... worth being the word that is too open to interpretation conceptually. The question should be "what is the average/approximate/maximum expected market value at this time?" ... or something similar.

 

[dr greg]

go to hawaii

The only thing that is an known unknown (how Rumsfeldian) variable here is the spelling of "hawaiian', it is wrong, this can be a factor: I recently picked up on ebay a quite nice shirt very cheaply .. Waikiki Sports in fact, that had that same misspelling, and because no-one else bid on what was a very impressive item, I got it for $40 and later sold it for $350.
My theory is that possibly that the big collectors' saved searches had the correct spelling and therefore did not pick up the listing, which is probably why I didn't see the one in question.....

 

[repeatclicks]

Someone asked if the shirt was a repro and the seller replied with:

"I KNOW THIS IS NOT A REPRO, BEAUSE MY MOTHER GOT IT FOR DAD ON THIER HONEYMOON IN 1951 ON THE BIG ISLAND.THANKS FOR ASKING"

I personally contacted the seller about the shirt and compared with the other items they have sold in the past (no nsense trinkets and bric a brac), it seems quite likely its original. In any case, I told them to send photos to the Hana Shirt Co to get further information about it.

Thanks for all the responses so far!

 

[repeatclicks]

Everyone should also be aware that the seller pulled the listing early because they did not know what its value was.

Another thing to note. Look at the yellowing of the cardboard, also look at the corner of the Cisco tag, its yellowed and is 'worn' looking. The creasing of the shirt from being folded for almost 70 years looks like deadstock shirts Ive bought in the past.

I told the seller to keep me updated about this shirt. Could be an interesting one!

 

[pdxvintagette]

Oh, I saw that reply, but I learned a long time ago to be skeptical of such provenance stories.

However, as a seller, I have a bone to pick with you.... are you saying that you thought it was an original, so you suggested that perhaps they ought to do further research before selling?

Gee, (on behalf of any serious collectors or dealers planning to bid...) thanks. Curious, were any bids on the item cancelled before it got pulled? I didn't add it to my watch list, and wasn't keeping tabs.

 

[repeatclicks]

To everyone who shed a bit of light on this shirt, thanks, but Im going to do a bit more digging by taking the matter to someone a bit more specialized on the subject.

It would be a shame to see this thread turn sour (and some of you are already attempting this), so Ill nip it in the bud now.

Consider this thread closed, and if the bartenders would like to remove it, feel free.

Thanks again!

 

[Guttersnipe]

Someone asked if the shirt was a repro and the seller replied with:

"I KNOW THIS IS NOT A REPRO, BEAUSE MY MOTHER GOT IT FOR DAD ON THIER HONEYMOON IN 1951 ON THE BIG ISLAND.THANKS FOR ASKING"

I personally contacted the seller about the shirt and compared with the other items they have sold in the past (no nsense trinkets and bric a brac), it seems quite likely its original. In any case, I told them to send photos to the Hana Shirt Co to get further information about it.

Thanks for all the responses so far!

Looking at the sellers feedback rating, and what they seem to be selling, I don't think they're in any position to make an informed statement as to the items authenticity. Provenance stories are notoriously unreliable - and HIGHLY popular with scamers.

Everyone should also be aware that the seller pulled the listing early because they did not know what its value was.

Another thing to note. Look at the yellowing of the cardboard, also look at the corner of the Cisco tag, its yellowed and is 'worn' looking. The creasing of the shirt from being folded for almost 70 years looks like deadstock shirts Ive bought in the past.

I told the seller to keep me updated about this shirt. Could be an interesting one!

I'm looking at the pictures on a 24" flat-screen monitor and I have no idea how you can make out that kinda detail. The seller's pictures, particularly of the label, are pretty blurry. And, yeah the creasing is very pronounced, but the Sun Surf Kamehameha reprint I bought last summer had just as pronounced creasing from folding.

I'm not saying I think the seller is a fraud nor am I'm not saying anyone is gullible - because I am just as thrilled with the idea that things like this might be out there as everybody else is - but something about that listing just seems fishy. And, my experience as a collector has taught me to trust my gut.

 

[Solid Citizen]

1951 DUKE Shirt

The final price was maybe $30.00 more than a full retail price Sun Surf repro. Whether the sellers 1951 story is true, who can say?

My whole take on the the 40's/early50's vintage Hula Shirt scene, is if you started collecting years ago on the cheap in thift stores etc. your cool. Some of the collections posted on the internet by people who did just that. Today to start collecting your too late, unless you have deep pockets $$$. Solid Citizen [huh]

 

[pdxvintagette]

There are still finds out there - and I totally get what Guttersnipe was saying, we all WANT there to be amazing deadstock like this out in the world - but it is a LOT harder than "back in the day."

My friend just picked up a ladies' Hale Land of Aloha shirt for under $200. That's a steal. Also, the last Gauguin shirt to sell on ebay went for about $800, which is purely the economy - the shirt is about $3000 regularly. And you know, a lot of guys on here regularly pay $800 for Aeros.

It really is all in what you value. It doesn't change Aloha your "coolness" level if you were too young to be buying back when these were hitting the thrifts. If you have an appreciation for the art and desire to enjoy it, paired with the ability to afford it - GOOD ON YOU.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Wow. Surprising. But I guess the economy is putting a real drag on spending.

I would have bought that for the price if I had seen it.

Here's what really happened, gents.


The seller cancelled the auction early because someone sent him (or her) a PM offering A LOT OF MONEY for the shirt ... provided the seller would agree to end the auction and sell it to him privately. The seller liked the offer, and duly pulled the auction off of eBay. This happens all the time for very high-end vintage menswear: Levi's, Hawaiian shirts, and workwear.


The seller ends up happy, because he receives more for the shirt than he thought he'd get via eBay -- and he won't have to pay eBay a percentage of the winning bid price.


The buyer ends up happy, because he pays less for the shirt than he thinks he'd have had to via eBay (with all those rival bidders to compete with).


In short, the shirt did sell --off of eBay-- and probably for thousands of dollars (due to its large size, dead stock condition, and original paper hangtag).


And yes, I'd bet my life that it was a true 1951 vintage piece.


.