True colors of G+B

[grunt56]

Could anyone familiar with G+B tell me how the actual color of their Historic HH russet A-2 compares with the pictures on the G+B website? I ordered one based on seal being obviously very dark and the G+B version of russet appearing in their ads as a rich, deep brown the way I like it. What's confusing is as I've searched this site comparing jackets I've noticed several online pics of G+B jackets and the HH russet appears as a lighter milk chocolate color. Don't know whether to believe my monitor but side by side the pics vary a lot from the Flightsuits page. Thanks and BTW- great site here. It's helped me tremendously in choosing my first A-2.

 

[Mike K.]

The russet horsehide is a lighter milk chocolate color. The photos on the G&B website and in their catalog make the leather appear darker than it actually is. Strangely, the catalog photos of the russet goat and even the mahogany HH are fairly accurate. I would highly recommend contacting G&B to obtain samples of their jacket leather before placing an order, that way you can see what you're getting. I have found that the G&B horsehide is way too smooth - not simply because of the HH they use but because of their lacquered finish. Also the base color of the hide varies somewhat but is kind of a gray color. I have found that the outer russet finish will eventually wear, or even chip off, revealing an odd color beneath.

 

[grunt56]

Wow Mike, Thanks for heads up. Now I'm wondering if ANYTHING less than 800.00 bucks won't buy me a HH jacket to last a good long time. I mean I'm expecting a relatively smooth finish that will reveal more grain over time, not turn into something I won't want to wear. I ordered this jacket out of inventory so it will be here very soon. I am quite curious to inspect it and check the fit but I can still return it if there's reason to believe it's not money well spent. Can anyone else shed some light on the issue of color changes or flaking on a Flightsuits jacket? Thanks much.

 

[Mike K.]

grunt56 - the G&B jacket is definitely a well made, very nice A-2 jacket and many a flying jacket fanatic has one in his/her closet. I have not heard anything that would indicate that much grain develops over time, partly because of the heavily lacquered finish but I suspect also because of the horsehide itself. G&B doesn't stand alone in this regard; there are quite a few other jacket makers whose smooth horsehide never really develops much character. It's a matter of how the leather was tanned & prepared. As for the flaking/chipping issue I encountered, that may have been just an artifact of the specific leather I received. When a small piece of finish was scratched, the thickness of the spray dye & lacquer resulted in a larger piece coming off with it. Whether this would happen on any/all of the G&B jackets I don't know. I suspect that with as many people that own this company's A-2 jackets, more would've spoken up in previous discussions to indicate a problem with the finish.

 

[greyhound68]

I really like the goatskin G and Bs. If I was ordering an A2 for the first time I would go with that. I agree their HH jacket (which I have also had) is a bit smooth for my taste but the goatskin is outstanding. You can talk to their sales reps (which give excellent service BTW) and ask for a real grainy goatskin which they did for me. I believe for a first time A2 it is an excellent alternative to the 800 buck plus A2s. Of course you know once you get the bug it is hard to stop.

 

[grunt56]

Thanks guys- The russet hh arrived today and after handling it the quality is obvious. Lighter and more supple than I expected a brand new 3oz horsehide would be. Wearing it is comfortable as heck but a shade large even though I ordered a 42 when I wear a 44 normally and my frame is pretty big. Why they cut jackets so far above the measured size I don't understand.
Just as I feared the color didn't have the shade of brown I expected from the ordering page. Nice color, just not on me. I called customer service and they're sending me a swatch of mahogany so I can check it out. I would go goatskin in a heartbeat with G+B but man I have to confess I've got a serious bug for horsehide now.

 

[greyhound68]

Remember on their sizing they give about a 10 inch spread. So a 42 is about 52 around under the armpits. I normally take a 42 in Eastman, Buzz Rickson but I took a 40 in GandB.

 

[grunt56]

Mike/Greyhound, you guys have owned the better jackets then. I've been eyeing the Aero Bronco seal brown jerky hh on the aeroleatherusa site. Looks like a trimmer fit on that particular jacket, don't see the puffyness and fuller cut in that one and nice details in the stitching. At this point I'd rather spend a hundred or two up from the G+B and get some grain that shows. Any thoughts on Aero?

 

[Mike K.]

Aero makes a great jacket and they have a tremendous selection of different leathers to choose from. I personally like their 'smooth russet horsehide' the best, although I'd request a jacket sourced from this hide but with more graininess. The biggest problem that I (and others) have had with Aero is the strange variation in size that makes getting the right fit difficult. What I mean is that if you compare the measurements on six different jackets of all the same size and style (i.e. contract number) you'll end up with big differences. One size 40 fits like a tight 38 while another fits like a loose 42. I think if you are very specific in stating the precise measurements you'll need, you would end up with a great jacket.

My suggestion if you want the best quality at the best price - get a Goodwear A-2 jacket from John!!
www.goodwearleather.com
He currently has some prototype jackets for sale (if they haven't all sold like hot cakes).

 

[fedoralover]

I agree, Grunt if your willing to go a few extra hundred, go with the Goodwear. The authenticity of his Bronco is unbeatable and he does each jacket to your measurements. What size are you, there may be a member here who may sell his Goodwear Bronco, I'm assuming to bankroll the other 2 Goodwears he just bought.

fedoralover

 

[grunt56]

Chest is 43-44, 34 sleeve. 6' x 190 lbs. I just this afternoon sent back the G+B and ordered a US Authentic seal hh. I made that choice because I honestly figured delivery on an Aero or Goodwear was unlikely before winter was over. Now if someone should have a new bronco for sale and the size/color/price were correct I'd be interested....

 

[Doctor Strange]

I hope you gave Shaul your measurements: US A's sizing is strange in a whole different way from G&B's. It's quite trim, but long - I went down a size from my usual, and while the shoulders/chest/waist are snug, the body length and sleeves are longer than my size-larger G&B jackets. (But then I'm only 5'8", so you'll likely be better off at your height.)

I have a seal horse A-2 from US A, and I think it's a fine choice for the comparatively modest price. I've had it for almost six years, and it's one tough SOB; the hide has developed lots of character (though the heavy finish has NOT worn away as Shaul claimed it quickly would).

Of course, like many of us, I suspect that there's a Good Wear in my future...

 

[grunt56]

Hi Doctor- Yes, Shaul asked me right away my height and weight and fires back 'You need a 44"!' So I say said "Look, my shoulders are exactly 20 inches wide. How wide is a size 42 jacket of yours? He said 21 inches and that ended the argument. I'm fairly slim and thanks to all the posts I read here I'm getting wise to the sizing issues- which jackets fit which builds. My arms are in proportion at 34", just hope the sleeves dont come too long. And yeah I think I'm going to enjoy this jacket and whatever follows.

 

[fedoralover]

Hi Doctor- Yes, Shaul asked me right away my height and weight and fires back 'You need a 44"!' So I say said "Look, my shoulders are exactly 20 inches wide. How wide is a size 42 jacket of yours? He said 21 inches and that ended the argument. I'm fairly slim and thanks to all the posts I read here I'm getting wise to the sizing issues- which jackets fit which builds. My arms are in proportion at 34", just hope the sleeves dont come too long. And yeah I think I'm going to enjoy this jacket and whatever follows.

Grunt, I ordered one last year about this time from Shaul. Just to let you know, his horse hide is very heavy compared to my Aero and kinda has a plastic like finish on it. Also unless he has changed practice, his sleeves are typically sent out long. I ordered a size 40 and the sleeves were 26 inches to the end of the knit. I had asked them to be shorter and was told that they all come that way but if you want them shortened later they will do it. To be honest I was irrratated about that as I knew they'd be too long and then it's just extra time sending it back. I decided to just send it back and get an Aero Real Deal, which did take longer but the horse hide from Aero is lighter and has a far superior finish and look. But some really like their US Authentic and are quite happy with it. Everyone's tastes are different, we are forunate to have a variety of vendors whom we can choose from.

Here's a pic of me wearing it before I sent it back. You can see how the sleeves are way too long. They are pushed way up on my arms so that they don't go down over my hands.

regards fedoralover

 

[ldmax]

US Authentic A2

I ordered a custom A2 from Shaul and it still came with sleeves too long. Overall, I am very happy with it, so I sent it back for sleeve shortening. I will have it back in less than two weeks.

Tony

 

[grunt56]

FedoraL, Thats a shame, except for the sleeves that jacket fits you well. I've been hearing about the overlong sleeves US/A frequently send out so I'll call on Monday and ask but it would seem they're just playing it safe for themselves. 23" from shoulder seam to cuff is all I need, 26" is nuts on 40-42" jacket. I'd be mad if mine came that way, too. As far as the hide goes, I guess I'm about to find out what everybodies talking about. To tell the truth the G+B I tried on felt just a tad light to me but I expect the US/A will go too far the other way. So you like that Aero, do you?

 

[fedoralover]

I'm happy with it, but they also got my sleeve length wrong. But they have wrinkled up enough to where it fits okay. Here's a pic.

However, if the Goodwear would have been available last year I would have gotten it instead. The Goodwear isn't that much more and the accuracy can't be beat. I have one on order and I hope to get it the first part of Feb.

fedoralover

 

[grunt56]

Hey Tony, What are you flying there in the picture? I see the overhead speaker but the shoulder straps seem to attach in the center which I haven't seen before. I just shot an email to Shaul begging him to set the sleeve at 24". Gave him specs to prove anything more is just going to sail past the break in my wrist. Hope he's paying attention.

 

[grunt56]

FedoraL, Thanks for your impression on the jackets. I'm going to find out all I can on Goodwear and Aero and of course see how I feel about the US/A in the meantime. It'd be a bummer to have to send it back for sleeve adjustments after what I just paid for 2nd day delivery. Meantime, a really nice Eastman just appeared on Ebay. Its a 40 but specs out larger.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Just for the record, I'm going to say this again: US Authentic's A-2s are very nice for what they are. And what they are is about half the price of the premium repros.

After six years on these fourms, I am really sick of seeing comparisons made between their jackets and the premium repros. US A will always look lame in comparison: just accept that they provide a lower-cost alternative for folks who can't spend $700 to $900 on an A-2. True enough, their hide, cut, and detailing isn't in the same category: but honestly, is it even remotely meant to be?

As the foreign-made jackets continue to skyrocket in price due to the falling dollar, as FS/G&B continue to raise their prices in hundred-dollar increments without bothering to update them on their Web pages, US Authentic stands alone as the only halfway-decent repro in the under-$500 range.

And as the market evolves, with Good Wear now on the scene, essentially custom-making amazingly outstanding repros for each customer, the bar continues to rise. Sure, US A's jackets just aren't in that league - but come on, they don't cost in that league, either!

Okay, end of rant.