Toys Mccoy Durable Double Riders

[dmoser1978]

http://toys-mccoy.shop-pro.jp/?pid=156441665

Toys Mccoy is making a replica of the jacket worn by Marlon Brando in the Wild One. It's a spendy jacket, 275,000 yen, which comes to about $2800 USD + shipping and handling.

Now, a one for one replica of the famous Brando jacket isn't available, other than what's made by Bill Kelso and I don't have a base of comparison between the two.

The price of the Toys Mccoy jacket is prohibitive for me, but I would like to hear from anyone who has purchased one of their coats, as this particular jacket is a bit of a grail for me and if it will be available in the future I may have to save up for it.

 

[dannyk]

Talked about here a bit. Not a ton of info but that’s what we got.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/bk-durable-the-wild-one-one-star-double-rider.86506/page-5

 

[Blackadder]

My fd pre-ordered the painted one. Will post some photos when that arrives.

 

[dmoser1978]

My fd pre-ordered the painted one. Will post some photos when that arrives.

I'm looking forward to a review of that jacket if possible.

It would almost be worth it if the jacket came with the option of brass hardware.

 

[Aloysius]

I didn't want to make a duplicate thread on this jacket because it's helpful to keep the info in one place for those inserted, so I hope you don't mind the semi-necropost (maybe we can call it post defibrillation?)

Since the jacket was announced, TMC has posted a lot of great photos of it in wear, and it looks fantastic. Definitely the JP rider to get, if one were buying one this year. But it also strikes me from the cut that the Aero Motorcycle Jacket and Indian Ranger are quite comparable. With a few adjustments, they could easily get an accurate repro of the Durable (whether original or TMC repro).

Here's the well known Aero Motorcycle jacket (which seems to be the least popular Aero rider around these parts, with the majority favoring D-pockets):

Here's the original Durable, as Mysteryo graciously posted:

And here's the TMC repro of it:

Quite accurate and comparable, except that they've gone for nickel hardware to better emulate the onscreen look.

The main difference from Aero's jacket, ostensibly based on the same Brando jacket, is the rectangular rather than mitered buckle (though the belt itself is a match), the lack of decorative snaps on the collar, the lack of epaulette stars, and the sleeve zip placement (inward like most Schott, rather than outward like Durable, Indian, and some Schott). The chest pocket on the Aero MC is also much more like the almost-horizontal Buco chest pocket, rather than the sharp diagonal of Schott/Indian/Durable and without the apparent length of Durable/Indian.

These seem like pretty easy changes, really.

The front of the Indian Ranger is actually pretty much exactly the Durable in pocket placement, except that the Durable has piping around the zippers and has the Perfecto-style pocket flap without the visible patch pocket. The Ranger also has the outside sleeve zip placement; if this had the sleeve gusset, rather than the flap, it would be a match in that respect too.

For understandable reasons, Aero won't tweak the Ranger model itself since it's a direct repro (just as the TMC is of the Durable), but perhaps someone looking to try the 'Brando' jacket could use the above notes as a guide for getting it from Aero.

 

[Monitor]

Aero would need to do some relatively extensive tweaking to get it right. Aside from the differences you've listed, there are some more subtle details they ought to address - chest pocket needs to be further angled, epaulets / shoulder seam dropped, etc. - but their pattern is very 50's in cut & style to start with so ironically, as it stands, they're closer to the real thing than Schott.

Bill Kelso is making a version, too...
https://billkelsomfg.com/shop/product/durable-one-star/
...for an insane amount of money, especially considering how their claim that their version is a 100% accurate film replica, isn't 100% correct. The Durable they copied is not screen accurate and I have it on good authority that Aero is, in fact, in a possession of a Durable that's actually a perfect double for the one worn in the film. Provided Aero decides to reproduce it in perfect detail (paperclip main zip instead of that tiny Talon they put on everything), it definitely would be something I would genuinely look forward to.

Regardless, BK's jacket is very nice and they did make sure to make it as screen accurate as it was possible so that's something to appreciate.

 

[Aloysius]

Yeah, I've seen the BK version, but the reason I had this train of thought was that the tweaks Aero would have to make are fairly small (in that they're detail based, rather than pattern based, since Aero's pattern has the proper 50s V-shape.)

Kelso jackets are quite good, though for the price of this one, I would rather just get the TMC, which seems to be better in every respect. (The price that BK upped his price to match TMC was a bad look, too, not that I inherently have a problem with the price itself.)

 

[Aloysius]

This exchange with @Monitor (discussing the late Rick of FilmJackets' take on the 'Wild One' jacket) has been on my mind as I noticed some other things recently.

I'd been lurking on FJ for many years but never looked at the Wild One thread because I've never seen the film. Reading now on the Wayback Machine and Rick's posts on this topic are genuinely excellent.

Also, hard to refute his skepticism regarding the Durable claim, considering how many of them he owned, and he points out that while the details of the film jacket are similar to the Durable, the pattern doesn't match up. Likewise, the Schotts of that era have the right cut, but not the details. This led him to conclude that neither is closer to the film jacket than the other, and the maker is still an unknown. This was already as of 9 years ago.

Can't say I've really seen these addressed by the workwear internet, which went from breathlessly saying it's Schott to breathlessly saying it's Durable. Always fun to see a mystery I have zero investment in, haha.

Generally, the top sleeve zip is called out as the reason that this jacket 'must' be a Durable, but I've noticed a few things lately.

The Indian Ranger is known to have a top sleeve zip, as is replicated in Aero's version and has been seen in Mysteryo's original here… however, I saw that the Indian catalogue photos in the 40s-50s shows it having a bottom zip! I realize Indian is a different brand from Durable, but this is a good signal that these things weren't as set in stone as we believe when we approach these things archaeologically.

Another thing: I've noticed that Schott has a jacket based on design elements from an old jacket that made its way back to them.

They note that the bimetallic zippers come from the original owner's own jacket repair… but look at the sleeve! It's a top zip, with an Indian Ranger style flap instead of a gusset! I doubt they re-patterned a whole jacket based on the archival jacket they found, but I believe they took aesthetic details from it, of which the top sleeve would be an easy one to incorporate on an existing 118 pattern.

Schott's story is that their jacket at the time was a 618, starless, so stars would have had to be added by the producers. Could this be based on such a 618 from the time?

I'm not posting this as a conclusion, but it's stuck in my mind that Rick thought the Schotts of the time were closer to the film jacket in pattern, while the Durables had details that more closely matched the film jacket. This does theoretically give us something else to look at; it would be particularly interesting if someone emailed Jason asking if they might have a picture of the original this jacket (PER22) was inspired by.

This is fun.

 

[Monitor]

I'm pretty sure we can dismiss any theory that Brando's jacket was made by Schott. I've seen all kinds of Schott Perfectos from the general era and not one checks as may boxes as the Durable which, to me, is the closest match. One member of the forum has what is in my opinion the most screen accurate looking original you could possibly ever hope to acquire. But yeah, the pattern is something we won't ever be certain of. I'm sure the jacket in the movie must've been tailored for Brando, something that the fact that the jacket is unlined would corroborate.

The oldest Schott Perfectos with top sleeve zippers, simply had them placed in the middle of the forward panel, like the Ranger; While on Durable, the zippers are diagonal, placed closer to the outer seam & slightly angled. This makes them appear like they're actually placed in the outside sleeve seam. The effect becomes prominent when you extend your arms, while the center-top zippers just rotate upwards and generally look off. You can imagine my disappointment when I got my first custom Perfecto and the zippers looked nothing like in the movie!

Either way, every once in a while, a piece like this will turn up... Some details are a bit off, others are much closer to Brando's jacket than any Durable, including the general vibe of the jacket.

 

[Aloysius]

I'm pretty sure we can dismiss any theory that Brando's jacket was made by Schott. I've seen all kinds of Schott Perfectos from the general era and not one checks as may boxes as the Durable which, to me, is the closest match.

I don’t think it was made by Schott; I just think it’s useful to get a better landscape of early 50s Perfecto + Perfecto clones.

 

[JMax]

I'm pretty sure we can dismiss any theory that Brando's jacket was made by Schott. I've seen all kinds of Schott Perfectos from the general era and not one checks as may boxes as the Durable which, to me, is the closest match. One member of the forum has what is in my opinion the most screen accurate looking original you could possibly ever hope to acquire. But yeah, the pattern is something we won't ever be certain of. I'm sure the jacket in the movie must've been tailored for Brando, something that the fact that the jacket is unlined would corroborate.

The oldest Schott Perfectos with top sleeve zippers, simply had them placed in the middle of the forward panel, like the Ranger; While on Durable, the zippers are diagonal, placed closer to the outer seam & slightly angled. This makes them appear like they're actually placed in the outside sleeve seam. The effect becomes prominent when you extend your arms, while the center-top zippers just rotate upwards and generally look off. You can imagine my disappointment when I got my first custom Perfecto and the zippers looked nothing like in the movie!

Either way, every once in a while, a piece like this will turn up... Some details are a bit off, others are much closer to Brando's jacket than any Durable, including the general vibe of the jacket.

Whats the back of the Knopf look like? Most I’ve seen look more like the old Sears jackets, without studs. I love how the hide on these look.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Reviving an old thread. Was looking at this Durable jacket last night. And their "Elvis" jacket. Looks a lot slimmer and longer than the Aero "Elvis". Was McHill a leather jacket brand? I need to check my Lightning book.

And sticking to the topic of this threa, the Durable.
The measurements for the Toys Mccoy Durable
サイズ詳細

サイズ	着丈	身幅	肩幅	袖丈
36	57cm	50cm	45cm	61cm
38	58cm	52cm	47cm	62cm
40	59cm	54cm	49cm	63cm
42	60cm	56cm	51cm	64cm
44	61cm	58cm	53cm	65cm

So size 42 is 22" P2P, 20" shoulder width, 25" sleeve, 23.5" length
And size 44 is almost 22.75" P2P, Japanese tends to go up 0.75" per size instead of the full inch in my experience, 20.75" shoulder width, 25.5" sleeve, 24" length

The thing with measurements from Japan is that they never show a pic with tape, just illustrations. And in my experience the shoulder measurements and the sleeve measurements can be off because sometimes they measure along the curve.

The P2P measurements sometimes is even wackier with the measurements taken at the panel seams instead of pulled and measured at the widest pit points.

So hard to find these jackets on the used market for maybe half the original retail price. The wait continues...

 

[Blackadder]

Reviving an old thread. Was looking at this Durable jacket last night. And their "Elvis" jacket. Looks a lot slimmer and longer than the Aero "Elvis". Was McHill a leather jacket brand? I need to check my Lightning book.

View attachment 459645
View attachment 459646

And sticking to the topic of this threa, the Durable.
The measurements for the Toys Mccoy Durable
サイズ詳細

サイズ	着丈	身幅	肩幅	袖丈
36	57cm	50cm	45cm	61cm
38	58cm	52cm	47cm	62cm
40	59cm	54cm	49cm	63cm
42	60cm	56cm	51cm	64cm
44	61cm	58cm	53cm	65cm

So size 42 is 22" P2P, 20" shoulder width, 25" sleeve, 23.5" length
And size 44 is almost 22.75" P2P, Japanese tends to go up 0.75" per size instead of the full inch in my experience, 20.75" shoulder width, 25.5" sleeve, 24" length

The thing with measurements from Japan is that they never show a pic with tape, just illustrations. And in my experience the shoulder measurements and the sleeve measurements can be off because sometimes they measure along the curve.

The P2P measurements sometimes is even wackier with the measurements taken at the panel seams instead of pulled and measured at the widest pit points.

So hard to find these jackets on the used market for maybe half the original retail price. The wait continues...

McHill is a line within TM. TM's owner likes to make repros of famous people/character's jacket. You can find the whole Great Escape outfit from purple sweat down to the boots from TM. TM also made studio licensed Bickle's tankers.

 

[Canuck Panda]

 

[Kenan]

Reviving an old thread. Was looking at this Durable jacket last night. And their "Elvis" jacket. Looks a lot slimmer and longer than the Aero "Elvis". Was McHill a leather jacket brand? I need to check my Lightning book.

View attachment 459645
View attachment 459646

And sticking to the topic of this threa, the Durable.
The measurements for the Toys Mccoy Durable
サイズ詳細

サイズ	着丈	身幅	肩幅	袖丈
36	57cm	50cm	45cm	61cm
38	58cm	52cm	47cm	62cm
40	59cm	54cm	49cm	63cm
42	60cm	56cm	51cm	64cm
44	61cm	58cm	53cm	65cm

So size 42 is 22" P2P, 20" shoulder width, 25" sleeve, 23.5" length
And size 44 is almost 22.75" P2P, Japanese tends to go up 0.75" per size instead of the full inch in my experience, 20.75" shoulder width, 25.5" sleeve, 24" length

The thing with measurements from Japan is that they never show a pic with tape, just illustrations. And in my experience the shoulder measurements and the sleeve measurements can be off because sometimes they measure along the curve.

The P2P measurements sometimes is even wackier with the measurements taken at the panel seams instead of pulled and measured at the widest pit points.

So hard to find these jackets on the used market for maybe half the original retail price. The wait continues...

I have also been looking at this jacket for quite a while. Almost pulled the trigger on it a few times, but realised how expensive it would get to import and so I dropped it.

In terms of sizing I think the most important measurement on this jacket is the hem. I mean it’s based on the Durable, so they didn’t do much tweaking to it other than removing an inch or so in the length and on sleeve length.

There is a few repros of the Brando out there and that is for sure the best one, but like the other repros this one is missing something.

Toys McCoy Durable should have had Brass Hardware and not nickel. Also it would have been nice with a optional fur collar option.

Bk repro. Just no Hell no. The man seems like a hustler and he charges €2100 for his repro made in Liberty Horsehide.

Groovin High made a cool repro that has all the right stuff like Brass Hardware and a fur collar, but this jacket seems to have a horrible pattern judging from what I have seen.

So what do you do if you want a good repro? You get a custom made by Field Leathers. That is my plan at least. Half the price and the same craftsmanship as Toys McCoy and you can add all the missing details and play around with it to make your “perfect” Durable Repro.

Just my two cents on this

 

[Aloysius]

Toys McCoy Durable should have had Brass Hardware and not nickel. Also it would have been nice with a optional fur collar option.

Is there any certainty that the film-used jacket (for which no exact copy has ever been found) used brass? Leaving that aside, my own brass jackets will look like nickel in real life much of the time, so I would think that’s something hard to be certain about from a black-and-white film.

Bk repro. Just no Hell no. The man seems like a hustler and he charges €2100 for his repro made in Liberty Horsehide.

What really confirmed it was doubling the price to match the TMC version as soon as it came out.

So what do you do if you want a good repro? You get a custom made by Field Leathers. That is my plan at least. Half the price and the same craftsmanship as Toys McCoy and you can add all the missing details and play around with it to make your “perfect” Durable Repro.

Just my two cents on this

I’m not sure I get this part at all though. A customized Field jacket will cost about as much as the TMC, and that’s leaving aside that his cross-zip pattern at the moment is not a dramatic V like you’d need for the Durable, so it would require re-patterning.

I’d imagine this course of action would lead you to pay considerably more, just to get brass zips and a mouton collar (something that could be easily added to the TMC given it already has the attachment points).

 

[TheBigEraser]

Groovin High made a cool repro that has all the right stuff like Brass Hardware and a fur collar, but this jacket seems to have a horrible pattern judging from what I have seen.

@puiyc1203 do you want to share your groovin high pics and comments here?

 

[Kenan]

Is there any certainty that the film-used jacket (for which no exact copy has ever been found) used brass? Leaving that aside, my own brass jackets will look like nickel in real life much of the time, so I would think that’s something hard to be certain about from a black-and-white film.



What really confirmed it was doubling the price to match the TMC version as soon as it came out.



I’m not sure I get this part at all though. A customized Field jacket will cost about as much as the TMC, and that’s leaving aside that his cross-zip pattern at the moment is not a dramatic V like you’d need for the Durable, so it would require re-patterning.

I’d imagine this course of action would lead you to pay considerably more, just to get brass zips and a mouton collar (something that could be easily added to the TMC given it already has the attachment points).

Every single Durable I have seen has had brass hardware without exception. Hard to say if his jacket had brass hardware or not. The TMC one is the best repro out there, but the price to import it and taxes added will end up costing me around £2400 from my calculation. A fully custom FL jacket with all the added details will be around £1350.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Thanks to Blackadder on the From Japan tip. 10% off is a lot! Two days only!

Japanese Elvis meets Scottish Elvis soon...

 

[Canuck Panda]

groovin high

How does it compare to BK's Durable? @puiyc1203 Thanks!

Anyone has the Jelado One Star? I remember seeing a cherry one here before. Are they made by Y2? Leather looks like the Y2 aniline.