The Vintage Tailoring Thread

[Qirrel]

Don't get me wrong, it is entirely possible to dance in a sleeve that has material added to the undersleeve without changing the vertical distance from the level of the top of the crown to the level of the pitch mark/seam of the top sleeve. Notice, however, that Astaire's suits all exhibit the same type of tension that Nick's suit does. Both in the top and bottom pictures this can be clearly seen: the folds radiate from about the pitch mark, the fabric of the top sleeve bunches up near the crown, the coat lifts off his shoulder ends and up and out from his torso. I would not call that unrestricted movement of the arm.

The sleeves on Astaire's coats are a compromise between mobility and cleanness when the arms hang down vertically. Seen from the back (with the arms vertically at his sides) the sleeves would exhibit folds in the armpit.

Allow me to illustrate what I mean when I say that to get the most unrestricted movement of the arm a low crown is needed:

The sleeve on the left is a modern sleeve. The blue line of the undersleeve is what Astaire's undersleeves would have been cut like. The further back in cutting history one goes, the more the sleeves would look like the one in the middle, and even further back they would look like the one to the right. From left to right more material is added to the undersleeve, and the crown height is lowered.

Compare the right sleeve to this modern draft for a dancer/conductors sleeve:

This is how that sleeve looks when put into a tailcoat:

The "natural" position of that sleeve is that where the arms are stretched out to the sides. It exhibits no tense folds like Astaire's/Nick's coat(s).

 

[herringbonekid]

Notice, however, that Astaire's suits all exhibit the same type of tension that Nick's suit does.

there are creases there, but they don't look too tight the way Nick's do.

The further back in cutting history one goes, the more the sleeves would look like the one in the middle, and even further back they would look like the one to the right. From left to right more material is added to the undersleeve, and the crown height is lowered.

i get it. but Nick is making a 30s-40s jacket, not a Victorian jacket, and it has a decent amount of sleeve head wadding; it's a classic / sculpted / high crown (similar to the Astaire examples).
therefore a low crown for movement wouldn't be applicable in this case.

 

[Nick D]

I opened up the front of the sleeve from top to bottom, and let out the front sleeve seam from top to elbow. That relieved most of the tension in the armhole, and added the little bit of ease that was missing in the sleeve. The excess pulling is reduced, though not completely eliminated. The hind arm looks better. I also let out the underarm dart a little to smooth out the waist, I might let out the front dart similarly, the suppression looks too sharp in front. I'm going to try to finish the cuffs and get the linings in today.

 

[Qirrel]

there are creases there, but they don't look too tight the way Nick's do.




i get it. but Nick is making a 30s-40s jacket, not a Victorian jacket, and it has a decent amount of sleeve head wadding; it's a classic / sculpted / high crown (similar to the Astaire examples).
therefore a low crown for movement wouldn't be applicable in this case.

Agreed. But the loss of mobility after the alteration could still have been caused by a crown that was initially too low.

 

[Qirrel]

I opened up the front of the sleeve from top to bottom, and let out the front sleeve seam from top to elbow. That relieved most of the tension in the armhole, and added the little bit of ease that was missing in the sleeve. The excess pulling is reduced, though not completely eliminated. The hind arm looks better. I also let out the underarm dart a little to smooth out the waist, I might let out the front dart similarly, the suppression looks too sharp in front. I'm going to try to finish the cuffs and get the linings in today.

I just read on your blog that you did not continue the underarm dart into the armscye. If the original pattern called for this and has 5/8" seams allowed, the armscye will have been widened by 1 1/4" as a result, which is quite significant. Did you account for this when cutting the sleeves?

 

[Nick D]

The pattern has the short dart, it ends well below the armscye, so I didn't change the shape of the scye. The pattern actually has a high, small armhole for a commercial pattern, even a vintage one. The front from the shoulder to the pitch seems too straight, though.

Here's a picture of the pattern laid out, you can see the front notch doesn't match and the mark on the top sleeve is too high, which made me baste in the sleeve wrong and throw off the fit of the underarm, but even had I matched the underarm, the front notch is too far forward. I should have checked the pattern first (mea culpa).

 

[herringbonekid]

Henry Poole, 1944:

 

[Fastuni]

Magnificent. Do my eyes play tricks or is the fellow sitting at the window really smoking?
Risky... burnholes and all that... ^^

 

[herringbonekid]

Do my eyes play tricks or is the fellow sitting at the window really smoking?

he is. and the last chap has his fly open and his shirt tucked in his underwear. oh those Brits !

 

[Rudie]

A pretty relaxed bunch of guys. The tailor in the last pic has his fly open. I didn't realize up until now that tailors used to sit cross-legged on the cutting tables. There's a reason why it is called "Schneidersitz" in German.

Not only that, Fastuni. Smoking stinks. Not good for new woolens.

 

[Fastuni]

I figure that almost everything back then reeked of smoke... so who would care or notice?

 

[Rudie]

Right.

 

[Nick D]

I didn't realize up until now that tailors used to sit cross-legged on the cutting tables. There's a reason why it is called "Schneidersitz" in German.

I have a copy of an old tailoring book, and it says the tailor should sit cross-legged, even though the beginning tailor would find it an odd position.

The second-to-last guy looks like he's wearing bits of waistcoats tacked together.

 

[Tomasso]

What a dream it would be to peruse these bolts.:love:

 

[Two Types]

The bloke who's smoking also appears to be wearing a short-sleeved shirt , with tie. I don't know whether they made shirts in that style back int he forties. Most likely he just converted the sleeves to make them more comfortable for working.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Great pictures.

The various items of clothing and states of undress suggest it was bloody hot down in that workroom!

 

[Rudie]

Looks more like up under the roof.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Ah yes. I guess with all the irons running it would get pretty steamy.

 

[Barmey]

Sorry if anyones has posted this before. Saw this on Tumblr and thoguht it worth a share. We dont sit cross legged anymore but very little has actually changed since 1939

 

[Baron Kurtz]

You don't sit cross legged? How then, or is it an industry secret??