The great hatters, by country

[feltfan]

Hi All,

We often discuss the great hats of the USA (old Stetson, Mallory, Cavanagh, Dobbs, Resistol, and various custom numbers and etc.) and Italy (Cervo, Barbisio, Borsalino, etc). But only rarely France (Willoughby, etc) or England
(Lock, Johnson, etc) and never Spain, Portugal, and so on.

Last night one of my local TV stations broadcast Hitchcock's 1930s English film, "Sabotage". I just caught bits of it as I did chores, but all I could think
was, 'who made all those luscious-looking big crown fedoras?'. Could they
all be Lock and Johnson hats? Were there other great hat makers in England
whose hats we rarely or never see now? Must have been- who else made
great hats in England?

I have a 1941 bullfight poster in my stairway. In the lithograph there is a
hat on the ground (I suppose the idiom, "throw my hat in the ring" came
from bullfights, not boxing?). It is an extremely handsome, clearly hand-
dented felt hat. I have never heard of a great hat maker from Spain or
Portugal. Anyone?

Other countries? Anyone have hats they can show from makers we have
not yet discussed, or discussed very little?

 

[The real Henry]

I don't know the film you're talking about, but I know the hats:

Those were all modyfied Johnson Poets(Indy-hats!)

 

[nicolasb]

So far as I'm aware, there aren't any decent hatters in England. James Lock & co, Herbert Johnson and (to a lesser extent) Bates Hatters are the best-known places in London, and were (I believe) something exceptional in the past, but nowadays what they produce is rubbish, overpriced, or both. :cry:

 

[besdor]

Hat Factories

In England today , there is very little left . Most of the hats sold there are made in other factories like Tonak or in China . There are two small factories called Olney and Battersby that may still be around . Battersby is an old name and made beautiful hats in the past . Christy's is gone .
There is nothing left in France. They had two famous hat factories : Mossant and Flechet . I have never seen a Mossant hat but I've heard they were very nice .
Austria had Habig . They closed in 1989 . Germany has a few places that still make their own hats . The biggest is Mayser .
That's about it with the exception of Italy . At onw time every major contry had a factory or two of their own . Even Greece made their own hats at one time !:cool2:

 

[feltfan]

Vintage...

I meant vintage hats, hatters of the past.

As much as anything, I want to learn which brands to
look out for. I see a lot of brands on eBay, for example,
but don't know what to make of them. A lot of them seem
to be custom shops (Chelton, Andrew Gross, Quality Hat Works)
and we're never going to have a complete list of the little shops
that made fine benchmade hats. Probably never have a list of
all of them in New York City alone.

But we have a shot at listing the big shops or larger fine hat
makers of the old days.

I visited Bates hats on Jermyn many years ago and it was
already pretty crummy. Went over to Lock and they were
okay, but not worth buying, as I recall. Surely there were
many fine hat makers in London in the 1930s and 1940s?

Never seen a Mossant (tho I can't avoid that silly poster reproduction)
or Flechet. Sigh.

 

[novalis]

Great forum. These two links from the Stockport Museum of Hatting in the UK should help. They provide a history of Christy's and the consolidation of the major British manufacturers:

http://www.hatworks.org.uk/demolition.htm
http://www.hatworks.org.uk/christys2.htm

Here's an excerpt listing the Big 5 of the British hat industry:

In 1966 came the final merger of the felt hat manufacturing industry. A new company, Associated British Hat Manufacturers Ltd (ABHM), was formed to acquire the businesses of five of the remaining firms in the industry: Battersby's, Christy's and T and W Lee's of Stockport, and Moore's and Wilson's of Denton, with all of the work, eventually, being concentrated at Hillgate. As a result, from those thirty-two hatters in Stockport, only one now remained, and although its trade was much reduced, it was the largest manufacturer of fur felt hats in Europe.

However, at the end of 1997, Christy?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s closed the last of the Stockport hatworks, their premises on Hillgate, though they continue to manufacture on a smaller, more modern site at Tottington, near Bury.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Both Lock and Herbert Johnson sold through Brooks Brothers and other firms in the US. I think they were thought of as upper crust when it came to the UK hatters in the 30's. Borsalino is bviously top notch for Italian hats in the 1930's.

 

[besdor]

Thats all there is left today . What is happening now is countries such as Columbia ,Argentina,Brazil and other South American countries are "stepping" up their production . Of course China will eventualy take over eveything even in the hat business .
I know that three very well known factories have been to China and are working with them to produce hats . :cool2:

 

[Baron Kurtz]

To resurrect . . .

. . . a sadly undersubscribed thread.

Never seen a Mossant (tho I can't avoid that silly poster reproduction)
or Flechet. Sigh.

Mossant produced unbelievably fine felt (though i think they contracted out, rather than making it themselves). I've seen them marked as "Mossant Fréres & Vallon" and "Mossant & Sools" and just "Mossant". My Mossant (30s, probably) is the softest, floppiest, finest felt hat i've touched. Surpasses even the finest Borsa i've handled.

Flechet i hope someday to sample.

I should be able to review/rate the [vintage] French hat makers soon.

bk

 

[besdor]

There were many companies that produced amazing hats in the past. When I was in Italy last year at the Borsalino museum, they had a collection of hats from other countries such as Germany , South Africa and Belgium . There was a company called Vimenet from Belgium that produced an incredible hat. From Austria, there was Habig. They made a velour and suede finish that was twice the quality of Borsalino . We sold close to one thousand of them every year until they closed shop in 1990 . From France , there was Flechet. From England there was Christy's hats (not to be confused with todays crap). Even countries such as Greece had a hat manufacturer. But they are all long gone.

Steven
www.bencrafthats.com

 

[immortaldiamond]

There were many companies that produced amazing hats in the past. When I was in Italy last year at the Borsalino museum, they had a collection of hats from other countries such as Germany , South Africa and Belgium . There was a company called Vimenet from Belgium that produced an incredible hat. From Austria, there was Habig. They made a velour and suede finish that was twice the quality of Borsalino . We sold close to one thousand of them every year until they closed shop in 1990 . From France , there was Flechet. From England there was Christy's hats (not to be confused with todays crap). Even countries such as Greece had a hat manufacturer. But they are all long gone.

Steven
www.bencrafthats.com

I'm really puzzled by the London hat scene. I've been to Locks and Bates, both of whom told me that their hats were made in Manchester or in the North. Then for a third of the price I found Christys at Hornets Hats. They also told me that their hats were made in Manchester or in the North. Is there one place making hats for all these guys? If so do they make them in different qualities? Or what? It's all a bit confusing!

 

[Dreispitz]

Hello Immortaldiamond,

good analysis! Ever since the Pound dropped against the Euro, I am searching the net for decent UK products. Many things have changes over the last two decades!

I bought a hat at Lock, thinking it´s now amaizingly cheap. Then bougt a similar style at Hornets, for curiosity. Well, the hats turned out being twins exept for the ribbon an an oversized sewn in lable and a huge price difference.

The way from the northern part of the UK to China might not be that far, I recon.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Patey's still make their hats the traditional way on site in their workshops though they make mostly(/only?) toppers, bowlers, equestrian and ceremonial/livery headwear (plus millinery).

http://www.pateyhats.com/

 

[immortaldiamond]

Patey's still make their hats the traditional way on site in their workshops though they make mostly(/only?) toppers, bowlers, equestrian and ceremonial/livery headwear (plus millinery).

http://www.pateyhats.com/

I think that is the only REAL place left in the UK. I'm going to Chicago in June so will pay a visit to Optima. Interesting that Dreispitz made a direct comparison with the two hats. I was a bit afraid to do this - although I (cheekily) took a Christy's bowler into Bates to see if they would reconform it. They refused, saying it was just too small. Hmmm ... oh, and I found some even cheaper, new Christy's at a retro shop on Great Marlborough Street (next to RAN Korean restaurant). £35 for a wool bowler. Decent hat for a trial.

 

[avedwards]

Christys may be cheaper than Locke, but Locke offers a better customer service.

A few days ago I needed a fedora reblocking, so I first telephoned Christys and was told that while they have the facilities to do so they do not do so for private customers and that I would have to contact a retailer and get it done through them. It seems ridiculous to do things this way, so I just contacted Locke and they said they would do it if I sent the hat there, so it is currently in the post. The only bad things is that they could not give me a quote without seeing the hat, so I agreed with them that they would contact me first before starting work.

 

[avedwards]

I know this is a little fftopic:, but does anyone know if there is anywhere in the UK where Akubras are sold? I have found Akubra's UK website, but it's a bit useless as it doesn't work beyond the homepage. All the talk of these modern hatters which either sell overpriced or low quality items just reminded me that Akubra doesn't do that apparently (I still have to find out).

 

[Charlie Huang]

Christys' is a hatmaker(-ish), not a hatter. They sell through Hornet Hats who I don't think has re-conformation facilities at their store.

Lock would deal with any hat, though they charge a fortune. Also, their see it before they can quote is a bit off putting, even when you give a very accurate description to them.

Personally, for matters regarding formal hats like toppers and bowlers, Patey is the place to go (they said they will re-stitch part of the sweatband of my bowler and re-conform it for a mere £25 compared to Lock's potential £70). Anything else, Lock's (but that is because there is no one else in the country... in fact methinks it is cheaper to send the hat to America and get it done there)

 

[besdor]

I'm curious as to whether Olneys still makes their own hats. I know that Pateys does but Im sure that there must be another (albiet it very small) manufacturer of fedoras in the UK.
Does anyone know?




Steven
www.bencrafthats.com

 

[Charlie Huang]

Yes, Olney does make their own (I think). I do know they make their own boaters (they supply the whole country's hatters). They don't deal with the public though.

http://www.olney-headwear.com/

 

[avedwards]

Locke received my fedora today and said it's £15 for a reblock (though they said it would not lose it's preset crease which sounds strange), "freshening up" and restretch. Sounds reasonable. Another £15 to send it back which sounds strange as it cost me half of that to send it there and I don't think Royal Mail charges more for a company than for a private customer. Either way, £30 is acceptable I think, considering that the hat is good quality, has sentimental value to me and has been well looked after (according to the salesman who called me).

The only thing I was not pleased about was that a hat jack would cost £35. I think Christy's only charges £5 for one, so I said no thank you to that.

So while the postage was a bit expensive and a hat jack too expensive, I have to say that the customer service was not just good but excellent.