The Bowler or Derby Hat

[mayserwegener]

Oh boy! Too good to be true! Glad you keep finding the rare ones!

Randy, Thank you! I have a couple other interesting Stiff Felts in transit. We have to keep this thread going strong.

 

[mayserwegener]

Brüder Böhm Wien "Derby", 58cm / FP 6, possibly late 1920s early 1930s. I think this is Fur Felt but it could be a Fur - Wool mix. It has a very nice Finish and soft Hand. The overall condition is excellent which is major bonus. This Stiff Felt was made for the Copenhagen Depart Store "Crome & Goldschmidt A / S. City".

"Crome & Goldschmidt City" post card, the stamp is cancelled August 1st 1928.

 

[Steve1857]

Brüder Böhm Wien "Derby", 58cm / FP 6, possibly late 1920s early 1930s. I think this is Fur Felt but it could be a Fur - Wool mix. It has a very nice Finish and soft Hand. The overall condition is excellent which is major bonus. This Stiff Felt was made for the Copenhagen Depart Store "Crome & Goldschmidt A / S. City".

"Crome & Goldschmidt City" post card, the stamp is cancelled August 1st 1928.

Love it, Steve. Interesting it says Derby on the label. The Americanisation of European culture began, of course, already in the Jazz age of the 20s.

The link below offers some info on Crome & Goldschmidt.

https://www.mortenmikkelsen.dk/portfolio-items/c22-a-s-crome-goldschmidts-hovedudsalg/

 

[mayserwegener]

Love it, Steve. Interesting it says Derby on the label. The Americanisation of European culture began, of course, already in the Jazz age of the 20s.

The link below offers some info on Crome & Goldschmidt.

https://www.mortenmikkelsen.dk/portfolio-items/c22-a-s-crome-goldschmidts-hovedudsalg/

Steve, Thanks! Also for the additional info. I actually linked the postcard photos from that site. I should have credited them so now all is well (I guess). There were other German and Austrian Hat companies that used "Derby" as a model name sometimes even for Soft Felts.

 

[steur]

Masterfelt by Biederman&Penner bowler. Size 56 with the bound brim at 5cm and the crown at about 13cm. Very elegant bowler, but the liner on this one steals the show. Needs a bit of work done but perfectly wearable as it is right now. We'll see.

 

[Rmccamey]

An excellent example, Stefan.

Masterfelt by Biederman&Penner bowler. Size 56 with the bound brim at 5cm and the crown at about 13cm. Very elegant bowler, but the liner on this one steals the show. Needs a bit of work done but perfectly wearable as it is right now. We'll see.

 

[steur]

An excellent example, Stefan.

Thanks, Randy.

 

[Blare]

Knox Tall Bowler
Approx 5 1/4 Crown (tagged 5 1/2)
Dimensional brim 2 inch front 1 5/8 sides
1 inch grosgrain ribbon

This tall Knox derby with dimensional brim creates a bit of a different profile. It sports an Approximately 5 1/4 crown and brim measuring 2 inches to the front and 1 5/8 on the sides to the tight D’Orsay curl.

I’m not quite sure on the dating… but I imagine this type of Knox tag and taped rear seam would put it pre HCA merger.

 

[Blare]

View attachment 392436

Knox Tall Bowler
Approx 5 1/4 Crown (tagged 5 1/2)
Dimensional brim 2 inch front 1 5/8 sides
1 inch grosgrain ribbon

This tall Knox derby with dimensional brim creates a bit of a different profile. It sports an Approximately 5 1/4 crown and brim measuring 2 inches to the front and 1 5/8 on the sides to the tight D’Orsay curl.

I’m not quite sure on the dating… but I imagine this type of Knox tag and taped rear seam would put it pre HCA merger.

View attachment 392436 View attachment 392438 View attachment 392439 View attachment 392440 View attachment 392441 View attachment 392442 View attachment 392443 View attachment 392444 View attachment 392445 View attachment 392446

I really liked the sellers photographs as well

 

[Blare]

View attachment 392436

Knox Tall Bowler
Approx 5 1/4 Crown (tagged 5 1/2)
Dimensional brim 2 inch front 1 5/8 sides
1 inch grosgrain ribbon

This tall Knox derby with dimensional brim creates a bit of a different profile. It sports an Approximately 5 1/4 crown and brim measuring 2 inches to the front and 1 5/8 on the sides to the tight D’Orsay curl.

I’m not quite sure on the dating… but I imagine this type of Knox tag and taped rear seam would put it pre HCA merger.

View attachment 392436 View attachment 392438 View attachment 392439 View attachment 392440 View attachment 392441 View attachment 392442 View attachment 392443 View attachment 392444 View attachment 392445 View attachment 392446

A few on head shots…

 

[Rmccamey]

Most excellent, Joe. The construction and leather make me think it is rather old, 1920s perhaps?

View attachment 392436

Knox Tall Bowler
Approx 5 1/4 Crown (tagged 5 1/2)
Dimensional brim 2 inch front 1 5/8 sides
1 inch grosgrain ribbon

This tall Knox derby with dimensional brim creates a bit of a different profile. It sports an Approximately 5 1/4 crown and brim measuring 2 inches to the front and 1 5/8 on the sides to the tight D’Orsay curl.

I’m not quite sure on the dating… but I imagine this type of Knox tag and taped rear seam would put it pre HCA merger.

View attachment 392436 View attachment 392438 View attachment 392439 View attachment 392440 View attachment 392441 View attachment 392442 View attachment 392443 View attachment 392444 View attachment 392445 View attachment 392446

 

[Blare]

Most excellent, Joe. The construction and leather make me think it is rather old, 1920s perhaps?

Thanks Randy. I quite like it. The felt is a bit thinner construction I think than the few other bowlers I’ve handled. While the dome is very stiff as it should be.. I caught it on the door jam getting in the car and it popped a crease into the side of it. Which I was able to promptly pop back into shape. I don’t think my other bowlers would have been able to be dented to easily. I’m guessing this was a light weight one.

 

[Steve1857]

A few on head shots…

View attachment 392450 View attachment 392451 View attachment 392452

Super find, Joe. Looks great both on its own and on your head. Quite an eye-catching shape, too.

Everything about it suggests pre WWII to me. I agree with Randy, probably 20s.

 

[Rmccamey]

I have an English bowler like that. It's on the "lighter" side of stiff

Thanks Randy. I quite like it. The felt is a bit thinner construction I think than the few other bowlers I’ve handled. While the dome is very stiff as it should be.. I caught it on the door jam getting in the car and it popped a crease into the side of it. Which I was able to promptly pop back into shape. I don’t think my other bowlers would have been able to be dented to easily. I’m guessing this was a light weight one.

 

[Blare]

Super find, Joe. Looks great both on its own and on your head. Quite an eye-catching shape, too.

Everything about it suggests pre WWII to me. I agree with Randy, probably 20s.

Thank you Steve…. I’m glad it gets the approval of our resident bowler aficionados Randy and yourself. Means a lot!

 

[alanfgag]

View attachment 392436

Knox Tall Bowler
Approx 5 1/4 Crown (tagged 5 1/2)
Dimensional brim 2 inch front 1 5/8 sides
1 inch grosgrain ribbon

This tall Knox derby with dimensional brim creates a bit of a different profile. It sports an Approximately 5 1/4 crown and brim measuring 2 inches to the front and 1 5/8 on the sides to the tight D’Orsay curl.

I’m not quite sure on the dating… but I imagine this type of Knox tag and taped rear seam would put it pre HCA merger.

Very nice derby - I believe your guess at Knox before the creation of HCA is a good one. I think the d’Orsay curl uses more brim on the sides than on the front, unlike the uneven brim cut that we call a dimensional brim. Just my .02 on that.

 

[Blare]

Very nice derby - I believe your guess at Knox before the creation of HCA is a good one. I think the d’Orsay curl uses more brim on the sides than on the front, unlike the uneven brim cut that we call a dimensional brim. Just my .02 on that.

Thanks Alan. I agree with your thoughts on the d’Orsay curl. The reason I made note on this one was that it made a stark visual difference from from the sides to the front compared to my other bowlers. I used the wrong terminology. In measuring the actual brim including the curl the measurements are actually opposite in dimensions….wider on the sides than front. The brim to front comes in at 2 inches while the sides including curl measured 2 1/4. Compared to my Chase bowler brim which measured 2 1/8 x 2 3/8.

this Knox creates a much more narrow presentation… I’m sure the taller crown effects this appearance as well.

 

[alanfgag]

In case you haven't seen the factory on your hat's label... 369-413 St. Marks Avenue Brooklyn. Now, apartments, a short walk to Grand Army Plaza and Prospect Park.

 

[Blare]

In case you haven't seen the factory on your hat's label... 369-413 St. Marks Avenue Brooklyn. Now, apartments, a short walk to Grand Army Plaza and Prospect Park.

View attachment 392823

View attachment 392825

View attachment 392824

How cool!

 

[mayserwegener]

P. & C. Habig Wien "Special Qualität, 58 cm, 124 grams, possibly mid 1930s. It's difficult to find old P. & C. Habig Wien Stiff Felts in normal sizes and this is a great one. As expected from P. & C. Habig Wien everything (Felt, Components, Construction) is top of top quality. Made for R. Hecht "Theater Passage, Leipzig". Also the fit is perfect so no tweaking needed. There is a "Auto Cape" mark but there is no "Auto Cape" present. My guess is the felt insert was removed. You can learn more about "Auto Cape" below.

P. & C. Habig + Auto Cape

Auto Cape

Drawing from the French Patent(756192A).

This is the Austrian Patent(133275) from 1932 and an addendum from 1936.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/199-men’s-stiff-felt-hat-and-method-for-its-production-austrian-patent-nr-133275-1932-adolf-sindermann-hans-frankmann/

This is the French Patent (756192A) from 1933. The translation might be a bit more clear in this one.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/200-a-method-for-the-manufacture-of-melone-bowlers-french-patent-nr-756192a-1933-m-adolf-sindermann/

The inventor Adolf Sindermann has a good number of hat related patents. His company was a major supplier of felt stumpen and capelines.

Here is an example of "Auto" Cape"

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/5-p-c-habig-hutfabrik/?do=findComment&comment=1134