The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[TheDane]

No, I don't agree, the catalog states that. Maybe because I ask another question - or ask in a different way. If the designation - the word between the quotes - should refer to the content, I would expect some word for "rabbit", when the content is rabbit. That is not the case.

To feel confident, using the "beaver-rule" on other rodents, it should at least work on the one other rodent, where we can compare, what the catalog says - the rabbit. When it doesn't work for that, I can not consider it a rule - and I wouldn't feel safe, using it on other rodent-names.

 

[mayserwegener]

Castoro is Italian for Beaver. Beaver designates a higher price point hat in this case (marketing). Lets agree to disagree.

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks for the discussion and examples. To my eye, the animal designations were chosen to suggest that the felt quality is associated with specialty fur content. Interesting that nutria is missing from the printed pamphlet, though rabbit is mentioned freely. Whether these furs were actually used (and to what percentage) in making the felt I expect we'll never know. I'm not sure about antelope, but I would agree with the guess that kittens were used in name only.

I wonder if the mention of gift in the brochure had more to do with customs than with present giving?

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks for the discussion and examples. To my eye, the animal designations were chosen to suggest that the felt quality is associated with specialty fur content. Interesting that nutria is missing from the printed pamphlet, though rabbit is mentioned freely. Whether these furs were actually used (and to what percentage) in making the felt I expect we'll never know. I'm not sure about antelope, but I would agree with the guess that kittens were used in name only.

I wonder if the mention of gift in the brochure had more to do with customs than with present giving?

I know Antelope is used by German and Austrian companies as a finish (you see it on sweats and liners). Biber is used for Beaver felt content (you see it on sweats and liners).

I am fairly positive "Castoro" is used for Beaver felt content. I have no idea about "Lontra".

Yes you are correct about the shop marking the shipment as gift to avoid custom duties. I was too fixated on the box.

The Borsalino Mysteries!

 

[carouselvic]

Antelope finish is also called doe finish.

 

[alanfgag]

The Borsalino Mysteries!

Yes... our Fedora Lounge version of the Hardy Boys.

 

[Rabbit]

Buckskin is made from a South African species of antelope. The term "antelope finish" would make sense, then, as a simile for a short-nepped suede-like finish.

 

[carouselvic]

Buckskin is made from a South African species of antelope. The term "antelope finish" would make sense, then, as a simile for a short-nepped suede-like finish.

Yes, suede finish is the same as "antelope" and "doe" finish.

 

[carouselvic]

Here is a beaver finished Italian made hat currently running on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221432904882?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

If you are unclear on finishes Rand and Reynolds talk about them in THE COWBOY HAT BOOK, pages 26 and 27. They list a few like these:
Silk
beaver
velour
suede
sponge
scratch
Although it should go with out saying(though rarely does around here) every manufacturer/hatter has their own take on hat finishes and how to achieve them.

 

[alanfgag]

You can read the pages Carouselvic refers to at this link.

 

[carouselvic]

Page 19 has their thoughts on "clear hair" as well.

 

[alanfgag]

Their take on Xes are in there too. These are 1990s thoughts with some questionable conclusions, but an interesting read.

 

[carouselvic]

Yes, I started a thread years ago with that very article. I sought and was granted permission from the publisher to quote that material. They asked me send them a link after I posted it. They were very impressed with this forum. Snyder also quoted Rand and Reynolds in his book STETSON HATS. I have yet to find any book written on any subject that is without some flawed thinking(or photos). They do the best they can it the time it's written. I still find both of these books to be a wealth of knowledge, and I recommend both.

 

[Kevlar]

Wearing a Borsalino Film today that I inherited from my Dad. Black, which was his favorite hat color. Size-wise it fits; style-wise it's a tad large for my face and frame.

But it was his and I will wear it.

 

[Huertecilla]

My excuses if I missed it when scrolling though this interesting thread; Is there a cleary defined time window identified by an ´onion´, yellow oil skin head liner top?

 

[mayserwegener]

With Borsalino it's hard to say. I don't have any (most of mine are Borsalinos made for German market) that go back prior to the 1950s maybe late 40s. Most of my pre WWII Borsalinos either don't have liners (only tip patch) or are stiff felts (Bombetta). One soft felt that does have a liner doesn't have a onion skin protector.

 

[alanfgag]

My examples are almost entirely postwar. Borsalino appears to have used a number of materials as crown liner protection from 1950 -1970 and also produced hats during this period without a protective layer. A few variations are shown below. The paper material was likely removed by some purchasers. A clear window would not be achieved by evaluating this feature alone.

 

[Huertecilla]

Thanks for the info.
Is there a Borsalino dating ´guide´ like for the Cavanagh et al?

I am courting a hat I find very attractively shaped with a distinct high straigh top and that does not conform with my perception of fifties+ for the liner cover.
It also has a 2,5 cm. ribbon.

Not that it matters as I will try buy it anyway because I líke it, but that does not stop one wonder, being interested.

BEAÚTIFULL hat box btw! Alan.

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks for the info.
Is there a Borsalino dating ´guide´ like for the Cavanagh et al?...

Unfortunately, no. Style and finish are not a very reliable gauge. Borsalino made a huge array of styles and the finishing and construction elements came and went and came again. The manufacturing tag behind the sweatband is probably the most useful element for ascertaining a timeline window, though there are mysteries there as well. The fact that Borsalino hats exhibited wonderful qualities (that we would associate with earlier eras) into the 1970s only adds to the confusion, but in a good way.

In the U.S., we see very few pre-war Borsalinos. Most that are identified as such are incorrectly dated. In Europe, the stock may be very different, as evidenced by the Bulgarian crop that continues to be offered on eBay.

 

[Huertecilla]

This one was originally sold in Asnières, Ile de France, Paris.
The shop considered it unnecessary to mention Ile de France, Paris.
A wonderful reminder of simpler times.