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The "Annoying Phrase" Thread

Forgotten Man

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LizzieMaine said:
Try to imagine Walter Cronkite or Eric Severeid or Chet Huntley or others of that generation saying "Papa Bush" into a microphone, and you'll see just how far we've come as a culture.

The mind doesn't just boggle, it rolls over on its back and has a spasm.

:eusa_clap

You said it Lizzie!

And people ask why I hardly ever watch TV... :rolleyes:
 
Paisley said:
"Papa Bush" makes me think of "Papa Titus" (right):

titus.jpg


"Bush the Elder" sounds better.

Bush the Elder makes him sound like a Roman Philosopher:

Plinyelder.jpg


lol lol lol
 

Alexi

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on the historic thing "an" generally precedes an aspirated H. Traditionally "an historical" is perfectly fine grammar
 

Paisley

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jamespowers said:
Bush the Elder makes him sound like a Roman Philosopher:

Yes, but I don't think Former President George H. W. Bush is going to fly. People will have changed the channel before it's out of the reporter's mouth.
 
Carlisle Blues said:
^
^
so true.....I think we are talking less formal discussion......at least I am//:)


Formal or not it is a historic moment not otherwise.
For example, it is a historic monument because historic starts with an h sound, but it is an honorable fellow because honorable starts with an o sound. Similarly, it is a Utopian idea, but an unfair world.
People seem to be confused most often about words that start with the letters h and u because sometimes these words start with vowel sounds and sometimes they start with consonant sounds. The rule is that you use a before words that start with a consonant sound and an before words that start with a vowel sound.
 

Alexi

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jamespowers said:
Formal or not it is a historic moment not otherwise.
For example, it is a historic monument because historic starts with an h sound, but it is an honorable fellow because honorable starts with an o sound. Similarly, it is a Utopian idea, but an unfair world.
People seem to be confused most often about words that start with the letters h and u because sometimes these words start with vowel sounds and sometimes they start with consonant sounds. The rule is that you use a before words that start with a consonant sound and an before words that start with a vowel sound.

ok say a historian out loud, when you say a historian you aspirate the h
when you say an historian you don't aspirate the h

" . . . an was formerly used before an unaccented syllable beginning with
h and is still often seen and heard (an historian, an hotel, an hysterical scene, an hereditary title, an habitual offender). But now that the h in such words is pronounced, the distinction has become anomalous and will no doubt disappear in time. Meantime, speakers who like to say an should not try to have it both ways by aspirating the h."
H.P. Fowler, A Dictionary of Modern English Usage, 2nd ed., revised by Sir Ernest Gowers (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1965).
 

Forgotten Man

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jamespowers said:
I thought you said it was because they cancelled Hogan's Heros and Dukes of Hazzard. ;) :p

SO TRUE!!!

Paisley said:
Yes, but I don't think Former President George H. W. Bush is going to fly. People will have changed the channel before it's out of the reporter's mouth.

And like I said, "Bush senior" is simple, direct and it's profesional. Papa Bush sounds like something a 14 year old girl would say... It's just silly.
 
Alexi said:
ok say a historian out loud, when you say a historian you aspirate the h
when you say an historian you don't aspirate the h

" . . . an was formerly used before an unaccented syllable beginning with
h and is still often seen and heard (an historian, an hotel, an hysterical scene, an hereditary title, an habitual offender). But now that the h in such words is pronounced, the distinction has become anomalous and will no doubt disappear in time. Meantime, speakers who like to say an should not try to have it both ways by aspirating the h."
H.P. Fowler, A Dictionary of Modern English Usage, 2nd ed., revised by Sir Ernest Gowers (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1965).


Uh, that is a different case when you change the language from American English to British English. Their pronunciation is different. A case in point is the word herb. We pronounce it erb and they pronounce the h so it is herb thus you have an herb in American while they say a herb.

Historian is a perfect example. A historian is correct as we are dealing with a consonant sound as opposed to a vowel sound. The rule holds just as it does with habitual, hotel, historical and hereditary as the h is pronounced and thus it is a consonant sound and not a vowel sound. If you want to pronounce these words starting with their vowel then you could use "an istoric," "an otel" and "an ereditary title." However, do not expect anyone to understand you. lol Try it with the same case in prehistoric it has the same consonant sound at the beginning so it is a prehistoric period not an prehistoric period.
 

Alexi

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jamespowers said:
Uh, that is a different case when you change the language from American English to British English. Their pronunciation is different. A case in point is the word herb. We pronounce it erb and they pronounce the h so it is herb thus you have an herb in American while they say a herb.

Historian is a perfect example. A historian is correct as we are dealing with a consonant sound as opposed to a vowel sound. The rule holds just as it does with habitual, hotel, historical and hereditary as the h is pronounced and thus it is a consonant sound and not a vowel sound. If you want to pronounce these words starting with their vowel then you could use "an istoric," "an otel" and "an ereditary title." However, do not expect anyone to understand you. lol Try it with the same case in prehistoric it has the same consonant sound at the beginning so it is a prehistoric period not an prehistoric period.

perhaps you should come to boston where we say 'avad yahd
 

Paisley

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jamespowers said:
Uh, that is a different case when you change the language from American English to British English. Their pronunciation is different. A case in point is the word herb. We pronounce it erb and they pronounce the h so it is herb thus you have an herb in American while they say a herb.

I think the point here is that using "an" and dropping the H sound, sounds a little affected on this side of the Atlantic.
 

Alexi

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Paisley said:
I think the point here is that using "an" and dropping the H sound, sounds a little affected on this side of the Atlantic.

it's not affected if it is part of the dialect/accent [huh]
 

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