The 16th-century Tridentine Mass & the Pope

[Miss Crisplock]

Er, so he was buried, on the third day he rose again, according to the scriptures...

and climbed back up on the cross for a short benediction and a sing-song?

I thought the point of the crucifixtion was that it was unpleasant.

 

[jamespowers]

I thought the point of the crucifixtion was that it was unpleasant.

I think the point of the cross is the triumph over that as well.

 

[carebear]

I think the point of the cross is the triumph over that as well.

Oh grave where is thy victory, oh death where is thy sting? :eusa_clap

Protestants in my experience, just have the bare cross, some have no cross at all.

 

[clevispin]

I have to go along with Miss Crisp re the cross. The current General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM - a code of basic liturgical rules) requires that a Catholic church have a crucifix. A crucifix depicts the Christ nailed to a cross - the suffering Jesus. I too find the Risen Christ image inspiring but in the context of a mass the focus is on the sacrifice of the cross and a true crucifix portrays that indeed. This is THE central reality of the faith.

The late pope's crozier - I think now used by B16 too - is a rather abstract crucifix - a good example of an artisan not needing to be always photo-realistic in depictions of the crucifixion.

m

























l;

 

[jamespowers]

Really no need to draw up sides on the cross it is really a matter of opinion. We choose with our parishes. Choose one with the cross you like if it matters that much to you. I'll live with this cross over nothing at all or beads hanging from the ceiling.

Regards,

J

 

[clevispin]

My boyhood parish too used something other than a church in its formative years. First, in a multi-purpose room was a 10' wide by 4' deep niche with one of those plastic folding walls closing it up. Inside was a plywood (nice plywood) altar attached to the wall. Next stage was a church of sorts but spec'd as a gym - for use by the school kids during the week. Only 20 yr later did a real church get built.

Its interesting to look at old wartime photos and seeing services held in very rudimentary conditions - the sands of Iwo, under a GP fly in Iraq etc.

m

 

[clevispin]

James,

not to be arguementative, but as regards the authoritative discipline of the church, there is no matter of opinion. A crucifix is required. Some parishes have ignored this and retain the Risen Christ cross. Lots of basics have been ignored. I agree there is much to benefit from in the differing depictions of Christ but insofar as the setting of a mass there is only one choice. It is a theological distinction and grounded in tradition. Images are powerful and the church does not let THE most powerful image fall back on opinion. There is a definite order to our universe and our planet and our nation and our county (A State Trooper reminded me of this on Monday) and our family and our individual existence. And certainly our church. It is a perfect divine order which we cannot comprehend except that which is made manifest to us. Despite OUR chaos - Trust In God in all things. When I was a child and could not form a concientious opinion - I trusted in the wisdom of my mother. Her word was the truth. She would not entrust her children nor would I mine to the whimsy of opinion in matters of life or death. Our duty as Catholic christians is to KNOW and love God. We form opinions about medical decisions and finances and education and employment and one million other FRIVOLOUS things. Indeed, frivolous. But to know God is our duty - all else falls away. Cancer, Harvard, 401k, broken hearts, loneliness, NFL, death, etc. - It ALL falls away. I don't mean to bitch but we should be certain about the Cross. There is no room for opinion.

m

 

[jamespowers]

I think we are getting a little far and widfe on this topic. By this time everyone has had their say. It was an interesting discussion.

Regards to all,

J