Summary of Fur Felt quality markings?

[JeffOYB]

Is there a page/link to info on felt-fur quality markings? ...One place to rule them all? I'm into VINTAGE hats and would like to get a nice one but it seems there are many different markings by the various leading brands from back in the day. ...6X... XXX... No idea what it all means!

Thanks!

(It's been forever since I hung out here. I'm likely just not seeing the answer to my question.)

 

[BobHufford]

No idea what it all means!

It means little to nothing except within a brand in a given era. They are just quality rankings that you cannot use to compare across brands or even across years within brands.

 

[JeffOYB]

It means little to nothing except within a brand in a given era. They are just quality rankings that you cannot use to compare across brands or even across years within brands.

So it might be a fairly complicated chart. But I've seen complicated charts before! ...I suppose you're saying you haven't seen anyone tackle sorting it out on a single page.

 

[BobHufford]

So it might be a fairly complicated chart. But I've seen complicated charts before! ...I suppose you're saying you haven't seen anyone tackle sorting it out on a single page.

Not sure it could be done. How do you compare a 1940s Stetson 3X to a 1960s Stetson 7X to a modern 30X? Or a 1920s Marathon 8-Star to a 1950s Portis Supreme Quality to any Dobbs Twenty? There might be a way to reach a concensus on some easy levels like Ten, Twenty, Thirty (based on price) for a decade at most. But a late 1950s "Twenty" is going to be a lower quality hat compared a 1940s "Twenty". The comparisons would be subjective and I don't know we could even agree on what makes a hat "quality" anyway.

If there is something already out there I would like to see it as well, but I would not trust it to be accurate.

 

[Rmccamey]

There have been a few such discussions, but as Bob said, there are so many variables across models, years/decades and brands (and felt manufacturers and even between countries), such a task would be formidable. I recently discussed creating a general hat ranking system (not the same as felt quality) but I have not spent much time on the scale descriptors. These are a start but they still need a lot of work to capture the essence of the ranking that would be generally understood and applicable across a large population of hat wearers (such as we have on TFL). I also think a 6 point scale might better separate hats in the Very Good category.

Excellent - New, original or NOS with no obvious flaws in pristine condition
Very Good - A few minor flaws from normal wear that can only be seen upon close inspection. Original component parts
Acceptable - Servicable hats with 1 or 2 obvious flaws from normal wear. No torn felt or sweatband. Components parts are intact but may have been replaced
Good - Hats with multiple obvious flaws, stains, missing components (ribbons, sweatbands). May have torn felt.
Poor - Hats with multiple, significant flaws, missing or severely damaged components

 

[Frunobulax]

Not sure it could be done. How do you compare a 1940s Stetson 3X to a 1960s Stetson 7X to a modern 30X? Or a 1920s Marathon 8-Star to a 1950s Portis Supreme Quality to any Dobbs Twenty? There might be a way to reach a concensus on some easy levels like Ten, Twenty, Thirty (based on price) for a decade at most. But a late 1950s "Twenty" is going to be a lower quality hat compared a 1940s "Twenty". The comparisons would be subjective and I don't know we could even agree on what makes a hat "quality" anyway.

If there is something already out there I would like to see it as well, but I would not trust it to be accurate.

I sometimes think it could be tackled with some sort of sliding scale to account for the decades. But then I think of all the other variables and start seeing things like that multiverse in the Dr. Strange movie and I have to sit down for a bit.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

There have been a few such discussions, but as Bob said, there are so many variables across models, years/decades and brands (and felt manufacturers and even between countries), such a task would be formidable. I recently discussed creating a general hat ranking system (not the same as felt quality) but I have not spent much time on the scale descriptors. These are a start but they still need a lot of work to capture the essence of the ranking that would be generally understood and applicable across a large population of hat wearers (such as we have on TFL). I also think a 6 point scale might better separate hats in the Very Good category.

Excellent - New, original or NOS with no obvious flaws in pristine condition
Very Good - A few minor flaws from normal wear that can only be seen upon close inspection. Original component parts
Acceptable - Servicable hats with 1 or 2 obvious flaws from normal wear. No torn felt or sweatband. Components parts are intact but may have been replaced
Good - Hats with multiple obvious flaws, stains, missing components (ribbons, sweatbands). May have torn felt.
Poor - Hats with multiple, significant flaws, missing or severely damaged components

I’d support this. I’m tired of seeing hats described as “mint” or “new” that have stains, moth holes, and dry rotted sweatbands. Something like “this hat is a TFL grade 1-A.”

I’ll need my costs reimbursed as I fly around the world enforcing the standards.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

So it might be a fairly complicated chart. But I've seen complicated charts before! ...I suppose you're saying you haven't seen anyone tackle sorting it out on a single page.

I was going to suggest an ouija board but now I’m leaning more towards bird entrails or rolling the bones.

 

[Rmccamey]

Don't be greedy. Companies would pay you to train them and audit their processes.

I’d support this. I’m tired of seeing hats described as “mint” or “new” that have stains, moth holes, and dry rotted sweatbands. Something like “this hat is a TFL grade 1-A.”

I’ll need my costs reimbursed as I fly around the world enforcing the standards.

 

[Rmccamey]

On the plus side, there are probably enough 1950s Stetsons (or even Stetson Stratoliners) here on TFL to make a good assessment as a benchmark decade, regardless of how "good" or "bad" felt quality during that time may have been. On the downside, establishing the specific factors that best signify felt quality would be challenging.

 

[JeffOYB]

The rabbit hole! The rabbit hole! .... So do I just go by what pics look good to me on eBay? : ). I'm OK with that. I'd keep buying til I found something that showed up looking like what I want and that I end up wearing a lot! ... Not fur, but I have a cracked/busted old Optimo Panama and got complimented in the last 2 places I went and one guy came up and shook my hand. Wear what ya like! : )

 

[BobHufford]

The rabbit hole! The rabbit hole! .... So do I just go by what pics look good to me on eBay? : ). I'm OK with that. I'd keep buying til I found something that showed up looking like what I want and that I end up wearing a lot! ... Not fur, but I have a cracked/busted old Optimo Panama and got complimented in the last 2 places I went and one guy came up and shook my hand. Wear what ya like! : )

That's pretty much the goal for me. I began buying to resell a couple of years ago ... not so much for the extra income (you'd be amazed how many hats I lose money on), but to see what a lot of these brands / models / quality levels are like. Trying to get that accomplished looking only for size 7-1/2 LO would take way too long.

Sometimes you can tell by looking that a hat is probably a good quality hat. This one I bought last night just has that "look" -- where you can tell by the way the felt looks when crushed ( ) that it might be a good one. We'll find out ...

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

That's pretty much the goal for me. I began buying to resell a couple of years ago ... not so much for the extra income (you'd be amazed how many hats I lose money on), but to see what a lot of these brands / models / quality levels are like. Trying to get that accomplished looking only for size 7-1/2 LO would take way too long.

Sometimes you can tell by looking that a hat is probably a good quality hat. This one I bought last night just has that "look" -- where you can tell by the way the felt looks when crushed ( ) that it might be a good one. We'll find out ...

View attachment 528973

I know that “Look” Bob.
I’ve bought several hats deformed in pics that turned out to be outstanding in every way for very little $.
A black Boss Raw Edge Fray, a Vita-Felt Strat and oddly enough a Stetson Premier Panama.
Would have cost a fortune if steamed and brushed. Love those “smashing” deals!!
B