Stetson Selv-Edge - Tell me everything that you know!

[MattJH]

I ask because I just purchased my very first vintage Stetson that, from the looks of it, I won't be reselling (like I did with the Stratoliner and the Whippet and the Eagle, none of which worked on me) from Mr. Lucky via his post in the Classifieds. I'm excited about this one, not only because it's a 7 3/4 and will actually fit me, but because it has the Selv-Edge. True to my nature, now I have to know everything there is to know about it, so I starting scouring the archives here and found the following, all from Brad Bowers:

On June 4th, 2006 in this post, he says:

Stetson first used the name Selv-Edge in 1933, and it continued into the Fifties, at least. I don't yet know when the Mode Edge first appeared, and if there was really a difference between the two. I suspect the Mode Edge supplanted the name Selv-Edge, but that's merely speculation.

On October 18th, 2007 in this post, he says:

Part of this mystery is why Stetson switched names from Selv-Edge to Mode Edge. Same thing, different name? Different processes? I haven't found that out yet. I really need to track down an old-timer from Stetson that might remember, but I just haven't taken the time.

And then on March 10th, 2008 in the Cavanagh Primer thread, he changes the end of production date for the Selv-Edge:

Stetson used the name Selv-Edge in 1933, but by 1940 changed it the Mode Edge.

Is there anything anybody has that they can add to the information accumulated so far? If the above is true, then I've got my very first pre-40's fedora on the way, and I'm ecstatic!

 

[Brad Bowers]

I thought I had posted it somewhere, but at some point Stetson revived the Selv-Edge name. I've seen late-'50s hats, and '60s hats, labeled Selv-Edge.

This is one of those inconsistencies that I haven't yet deciphered.

Looks like the photos have been taken down. Do you have some to post?

Brad

 

[MattJH]

Looks like the photos have been taken down. Do you have some to post?

Not yet, but when it arrives, I'll be certain to take some detailed pictures.

 

[MattJH]

The hat arrived today! I'm going to drop it off with Oscar at South Street Hats for a reblock and clean as it needs it, so the pictures will have to wait until I get it back from him. Interesting to note is the sweatband is black but it's embossed with the logo of the original Philadelphia Stetson factory store. When did that factory officially close? Beautiful hat, by the way. Beavers make fantastic felt!

 

[Lefty]

I don't know if this is also true of vintage Stetson 3x hats -

a 3x resistol doesn't have any beaver in it, but is a very nice hat. Resistol's 1950s kitten finish hats have a great feeling felt. Why do you say that hat needs a renovation? Looks like 5 minutes of shaping it with a little bit of steam and it'd be good as new.

and we know that this isn't always true -

The X Factor Rating System
Many people asked about the X factor ratings on their hat. What does it really mean when you wear a 10X hat? 50X hat? 100X Hat? Well, according to a book called "The Cowboy Hats" it explain that in the hat making field, felt has traditionally been graded according to its X-factor. The X-factor was originally determined by the density and shape of the material, and ranged in grade from a low of 1X to a high of 10X. Hats made of material rated below 5X generally contained a poorer grade of fur and little or no beaver fur. A 10X hat was made of 100% beaver fur. The X-factor was also a fairly reliable price guide, with a 3X hat costing $30 and a 4X hat costing $40 and a 5X hat costing $50 and so on. Fifty years ago, a 10X Stetson cost $100, was made of 100% pure beaver fur and was the finest hat available.


Today, however, the X-factor rating system is rather subjective. Manufacturers and dealers are not only rating hats differently, each according to its own criteria, but they are also using the X as a price plateau rather than an actual quality rating system.

 

[MattJH]

Thanks, Lefty! After handling the beaver felt from an old MacLachlan and again feeling beaver felt from a few Art Fawcetts I had the pleasure of checking out in person at the Philadelphia meet-up in February, I'm pretty confident that this 3X is made of beaver. It's got that very smooth, thin, supple hand to it. Virtually no stiffness at all, but it somehow still holds its shape. Definitely the nicest felt I own in a hat, either way.

I'm very curious to know what date it was that Stetson closed up shop on Chestnut Street in Philadelphia. It would help me date this hat. I know that black sweatbands generally indicate a newer model hat, but this one is most certainly not a newer model. It also has an ID tag under the sweatband noting that the color is called "sky" and the model is actually "Stetsonian" (although it does not say Stetsonian anywhere on the sweatband).

Hopefully, pictures will help date it.

 

[Lefty]

***

Snyder's "Stetson Hats" book reports that the Stetson Philadelphia store closed in mid-April 1968. According to Snyder, Stetson was out of the hat manufacturing business by January 1971.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Tango Yankee]

Mode-Edge vs. Selv-Edge

I think they're actually two different edges (though of course I could be wrong.)

On Stetsons I have with a Mode-Edge the edge looks like a Cav-Edge, i.e., a smooth transition from the folded edge to the brim as it was felted together. On the other hand, one I came across last week with a Selv-Edge had an edge that looked like an overwelt edge without the stitching. The edge of the brim did not appear to be felted back into the brim at all, no smooth transition. Just the felt folded over and secured down somehow.

I know, I know, worthlesswithoutpics but I'm at work. I'll try to find the examples when I get home, but I've been moving things around quite a bit and I'm not sure I can lay hands on it without a major search. We'll see!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Lefty]

By the way, be sure to check behind the sweat -

(I edited this quote quite a bit)

One of the things that makes this hat special, in my view, is that it came from the Stetson company retail store at 1224 Chestnut Street in Philadelphia.

Snyder's "Stetson Hats" book states that all hats sold in the Philadelphia company retail store were stamped with the date of purchase. Snyder got this one right -- the inside of the sweatband is stamped December 15, 1948. The hat sold for $12.50.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Brad Bowers]

I think they're actually two different edges (though of course I could be wrong.)

On Stetsons I have with a Mode-Edge the edge looks like a Cav-Edge, i.e., a smooth transition from the folded edge to the brim as it was felted together. On the other hand, one I came across last week with a Selv-Edge had an edge that looked like an overwelt edge without the stitching. The edge of the brim did not appear to be felted back into the brim at all, no smooth transition. Just the felt folded over and secured down somehow.

I know, I know, worthlesswithoutpics but I'm at work. I'll try to find the examples when I get home, but I've been moving things around quite a bit and I'm not sure I can lay hands on it without a major search. We'll see!

Cheers,
Tom

This could be an "Ah ha!" moment. Was the Selv-Edge you saw a later model hat? That could explain the revival of the Selv-Edge name by applying it to a "stuck edge" hat. Same as the revival of "Cavart Edge" was applied to a stuck edge hat. The overwelt is first glued down, then stitched to hold it in place, and once the glue has cured, the stitches are removed.

Brad

 

[Brad Bowers]

Information I have says that Stetson licensed the rights to Stevens to sell hats under their name in January 1971. I would assume the Philadelphia factory closed at that time, but I have very little information on Stetson -- it tends to fly under my radar.

Brad

 

[carouselvic]

 

[Tango Yankee]

This could be an "Ah ha!" moment. Was the Selv-Edge you saw a later model hat? That could explain the revival of the Selv-Edge name by applying it to a "stuck edge" hat. Same as the revival of "Cavart Edge" was applied to a stuck edge hat. The overwelt is first glued down, then stitched to hold it in place, and once the glue has cured, the stitches are removed.

Brad

I believe it may be, and I believe the process you've described is what was done, but didn't want to say until I can dig it out and check for sure. I'll be sure to look for it tonight!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[MattJH]

Okay, while this was still hot, I wanted to get some pictures up so I took some with my BlackBerry Storm in my car out in the parking lot. Here's what I have that may help you help me with dating, information, etc.:

​

There's some sort of ink stamp in that last one, but I couldn't read it. It's definitely from the factory store, though.

 

[carouselvic]

Is that liner glued in?

 

[Brad Bowers]

Okay, that's almost certainly a stuck edge hat - you can see the very sharp definition line where the edge meets the brim. As well as being a later model hat, that pretty well cinches it for me that a later Selv-Edge is glued.

Nice hat, MattJH! We know it's pre-1971 (unless they kept the store open and brought in hats from Missouri), so it's probably somewhere between '65 and '71, I'm thinking. Could be earlier, though.

Brad

 

[carouselvic]

Stetson closed their factory store, mid-April of1968.

 

[MattJH]

Is that liner glued in?

Yes.

And thanks, everyone! Considering we know it's a later edition Selv-Edge and the factory store closed in '68, it's safe to simply say this is a 60's hat, I'm sure. Being that I'm born and raised as a Philadelphian, this hat has a bit of sentimental value to it for me.

 

[Mr. Lucky]

Matt, I'm glad you like the hat and that it means something to you. Now, could you do me a favor? Pop on down to the corner of South 69th Street and Woodlawn Ave., a place called Jack's, and grab me an Italian Hoagie with EVERYTHING! A couple of pretzels would be nice too!

 

[Tango Yankee]

Well, this is frustrating! I had that hat in my hands, checking out the "Selv-Edge" and thinking it was something I needed to get back to, and now I can't find it. :rage: If I recall correctly it did have a black sweatband. I'll look for it some more later; might not be until this weekend.

Regards,
Tom